Episode #107: “Black Americans Talking About Us” with Michael Obel-Omia, Donald Cunnigen, Denise Mendez, and Roy Hamilton

“Black Americans Talking About Us” with Michael Obel-Omia, Donald Cunnigen, Denise Mendez, and Roy Hamilton   Interviewer info Lyssa Rome is a speech-language pathologist in the San Francisco Bay Area. She is on staff at the Aphasia Center of California, where she facilitates groups for people with aphasia and their care partners. She owns an LPAA-focused private practice and specializes in working with people with aphasia, dysarthria, and other neurogenic communication impairments. She has worked in acute hospital, skilled nursing, and continuum of care settings. Prior to becoming an SLP, Lyssa was a public radio journalist, editor, and podcast producer. Michael Obel-Omia Michael Obel-Omia is a public speaker, writer, and educator who has aphasia due to a stroke in 2016. In his tireless efforts to improve, he has found poetry allows him to express himself in ways that speech cannot. An avid advocate for people with aphasia, Michael has published essays about experiences in the journal “Blood and Thunder: Musings the Art of Medicine; The Boston Globe; the Providence Journal; and Rhode Island NPR’s This I Believe. Michael lives with his family in the beautiful town of Barrington, Rhode Island.   Links: Boston Globe article about Michael Obel-Omia A Black Father Wonders: Is ‘The Talk’ Enough? by Michael Obel-Omia (Boston Globe article about disability and race) Finding My Words: Aphasia Poetry by Michael Obel-Omia (book) Ask the Expert with Michael and Carolyn Obel-Omia (National Aphasia Association video)   Roy Hamilton Roy Hamilton, MD, MS, FAAN, FANA is a professor in the departments of Neurology, Psychiatry, and Physical Medicine and Rehabilitation at the University of Pennsylvania, where he is the director of both Penn's Laboratory for Cognition and Neural Stimulation (LCNS) and the Penn Brain Science, Translation, Innovation and Modulation Center (brainSTIM). His research uses noninvasive electrical and magnetic brain stimulation to better understand the neural basis of language and to enhance aphasia recovery. Dr. Hamilton has also been recognized nationally for his work in diversity in neurology and academic medicine. He served as the inaugural Assistant Dean for Cultural Affairs and Diversity at the Perelman School of Medicine and is the inaugural Vice Chair for Diversity and Inclusion in Penn’s Department of Neurology.   Links brainSTIM Laboratory for Cognition and Neural Stimulation Instagram Twitter: PennbrainSTIM   Donald Cunnigen Dr. Donald (Doc) Cunnigen is Professor emeritus of Sociology at the University Rhode Island, where he was the first Black full professor of sociology with tenure since the founding of the university in 1892. He was a member of the steering committee that started the Black Americans with Aphasia Conversation group and continues to be an active member of the group.   Doc Cunnigen videos 2011 Harlem Book Fair panel on the Obama Administration Hands in Harmony: Aphasia Clefs Denise Mendez Dr. Denise Mendez is an educator who worked for 29 years as a teacher, administrator, and curriculum coordinator. In 2017, she suffered the first of four hemorrhagic brain bleeds (from an AVM) and was never able to return to her job. Her life-long passion for teaching and advocacy is still there. Aphasia just changed who she serves. She has a website, More Than Aphasia.com and a podcast called Still Something To Say. Denise is one of the leaders of the Mid Atlantic Aphasia Conference, and a facilitator of the Penn State Alumni Aphasia Group. She also participates in multiple aphasia groups, including San Francisco State’s Black conversation group NAA’s Black Americans with Aphasia Conversation Group. Denise’s motto is “I have aphasia, but aphasia does not have me!”   Links: https://morethanaphasia.com/ Twitter: MoreThanAphasia Podcast: Still Something 2 Say Podcast on Spotify     Additional Notes: Aphasia Access Aphasia Conversations Episode 102: Researching Health Disparities in Minority Stroke Survivors with Dr. Davetrina Seles Gadson     EDITED TRANSCRIPT Lyssa Rome  Welcome to the Aphasia Access Aphasia Conversations Podcast. I'm Lyssa Rome. I'm a speech language pathologist on staff at the Aphasia Center of California, and I see clients with aphasia and other neurogenic communication impairments in my LPAA-focused private practice. I'm also a member of the Aphasia Access Podcast Working Group. Aphasia Access strives to provide members with information, inspiration and ideas that support their aphasia care through a variety of educational materials and resources.   June is Aphasia Awareness Month, and I'm excited to be today's host for an episode that will feature the National Aphasia Association's Black Americans with Aphasia Conversation Group. I'll be talking first with Michael Obel-Omia, a co-founder and co-host of the group. Michael is a public speaker, writer, and educator who has aphasia due to a stroke in 2016. In his tireless efforts to improve he has found poetry allows him to express himself in ways that speech cannot. An avid advocate for people with aphasia, Michael has published essays about experiences in the journal Blood and Thunder: Musings on The Art of Medicine, the Boston Globe, the Providence Journal, and Rhode Island NPR’s This I Believe. Michael lives with his family in the beautiful town of Barrington, Rhode Island. Michael, welcome to Aphasia Access Conversations Podcast, I'm really glad to be talking with you today.   Michael Obel-Omia    Thank you so much. I'm blessed to be on this opportunity. Thank you so much.   Lyssa Rome  I wanted to start by asking you why you wanted to start an aphasia group for Black Americans.   Michael Obel-Omia  Thank you, Lyssa. I had a stroke on 21 May, 2016. And I worked very hard to be able to talk first. But no one had talked about being a Black person, about the ideas we had. So I talked to Darlene Williamson. And I said, this is great. I know so many wonderful people. Aphasia Resource Center is so plentiful, so wonderful. I've been creative writing, I've done Toastmasters, everything like that. But I still haven't spoken to Black Americans.   There are 2 million people who have aphasia. And probably about 10% of the population is a Black person. So I said to Darlene—I said, “Is it possible I could talk to people about being Black with aphasia, to talk about what's going on?” And she was very excited. She called Roy Hamilton. I spoke with him, from the University of Pennsylvania. I talked to him for a while. And it started, we started doing it. I started thinking about what we could do. We called a few people together, emailed. All of a sudden, I think in January 2022, we had people on the Black Americans with Aphasia Conversation Group, four or five people at first. But now, we have meetings twice a month in April, in May, etc. with 19 participants. It's a wonderful thing now. It's really great.   Lyssa Rome Wow. So it's grown from this, this need that you felt, and that you saw, to have a space for Black Americans with aphasia, to… it sounds like a really thriving group.   Michael Obel-Omia Yes. Yes, that's true. And again, please remember, there are dozens or hundreds of people with aphasia, and it's wonderful. It really is great—to hear from different people is wonderful. But this is a chance for a few Black people to talk about being Black.   Lyssa Rome When the group came together for the first time, what did you think? Or what was your reaction when you were among other Black people with aphasia? What did that feel like for you?   Michael Obel-Omia Well, of course, I'm an educator—28 years teaching English and everything and preparing for education, everything, English. So I was very nervous. The first time I said, “What am I gonna do?” I sat down and wrote out the outline of what I was going to do. I had to have all the ideas. I went on the internet for ideas—what's happening here, what’s happening there. I’m very nervous about things. I'm nervous about everything now, with the stroke, with everything, I'm nervous. But I was already prepared with an outline. I had it written down, ready to go. And I was ready to do that.   We started talking about, “Well, what are you doing? What's going on? How's it happening? What do you do that's so much fun?” So we started talking about things and talking about ourselves. And just chatting about things. I had my outlines so precise, written down, for conversations—being an English teacher. But now I just go in and I go in, I'm smiling and laughing about “What's going on. How are you doing? How is it, having aphasia? How is it, talking about what's happening? What's getting in the way?” And that is one hour. That's what it is: Black Americans talking about us.   Lyssa Rome  Sounds like a really meaningful experience. And when we first spoke about doing this podcast, you described the feeling of relief that you felt, being in a room with other people who shared this experience with you.   Michael Obel-Omia Yes, I have great relief. I have a great feeling. I'm so relaxed, is what I am. When I'm talking to someone right now about podcasts, obviously, my senses are tense right now. My shoulders are high. I'm nervous. I'm worried about what I should say. But when I call the Black Aphasia Conversation Group, my shoulders drop down. There's great relief. Great relaxing, I'm smiling. I'm laughing. It's a lot of fun just to see what's going on.   There are serious issues too. One time, a woman wrote about fear and anxiety. What was going to happen, what I'm worried about, I think being anxious, having a stroke on 21 May, 2016. I'm really anxious about things now. Really, anxiety. I'm very worried things will happen. It's very silly. I mean, when I think about it, it's very silly, but I'm anxious about things.   So a woman asked us, “What about aphasia? What about anxiety?” And we talked about that. Dr. Gadson—Dr. Davetrina Gadson— talked about fear or flight. And of course, for me, Fate—Native Son by Richard Wright. Fear, flight, fate. So we talked about that very seriously, about what it is to be so anxious about things. So there are things that are fun and laughing and great relief and comfort, but fear and flight and fate. Yeah, that's there too.   Lyssa Rome  So it sounds like you are able to talk about a wide range of experiences that you have—both the joyful experiences, and then also the harder experiences and the anxiety and the other emotions that can go along with aphasia. You mentioned Dr. Davetrina Seles Gadson, who was recently on our podcast. The episode with her will be linked in our show notes. I'm wondering if you could describe how the group works a little bit more. What's Dr. Seles Gadson’s role? What's your role? You mentioned that you meet twice a month? Tell us a little bit more about the nuts and bolts of it.   Michael Obel-Omia  And so we're all on here on the Zoom 12 of us, 14, 19 participants, and we can talk about it. What makes us tick? What's happening? So everyone can talk about something. Everything—we can talk about it. We talked for about an hour—what's happening, what's going on. And it's wonderful.   Twice, or three or four times, we've had Black Jeopardy, which is Jeopardy with Black people. And she asks great questions. It's a lot of fun to hear. And we can laugh about that as well. It's great. And it's a lot of fun to ask great questions. It's just fun to talk about that. And people feel really good about ourselves.   But we stop for a few seconds to talk about: “How can I get prescriptions? How can I find about someone [to answer] questions or ideas or opportunities or issues? I mean, how do I get somebody? How do I find somebody in Philadelphia? How to find somebody near Maryland about this question? How do I find this out? How do I find speech therapy? How do I find that?” And sometimes it's pretty frustrating. It's like, “Well, I don't know how to do this anymore. I used to meet with a speech therapist, and now they say, ‘No—no more anymore.’ What can I do?” And so we talked about that.   Lyssa Rome  Yeah, yeah. So many frustrations and obstacles that aphasia can cause for people and I think it sounds like what you're describing is people with Aphasia in the group helping one another to find some solutions. Is that one of the functions of the group?   Michael Obel-Omia    Yes, I have the idea. I have aphasia. I have ideas of what I'm supposed to say, but sometimes I can hear people say something. And—excuse me, I try to be humble—I’m a pretty smart guy for years with aphasia. I was a teacher at Roxbury Latin, at William Penn Charter, University School. I was the head of school at Paul Cuffee School. I'm pretty smart. I can do that. Now, I got aphasia in 2016. I have the idea now, but I can't do it just right.   About a month ago with the Boston Globe—I just did an article in the Boston Globe about a time I was in North Carolina with Aphasia Access that day. Aphasia Access was wonderful with Stroke Across America. It was a wonderful, wonderful, wonderful night—Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday. It was great.   I was at the airport in Durham, to get on at North Carolina at Charlotte. And I was anxious because I couldn't do something that the security officer asked of me and I froze. I was frightened. And I was very lucky—a very kind, very young Black man reached out to me, and said, “Come on, follow me. Come on.” And I followed him. And very simple, all of about 25 seconds. But I was very afraid. I was very worried about what I was supposed to do. What am I supposed to do right now? What do you want me to do right now? I was froze. But I walked easily—walked through very easily, very comfortably, very quietly. But yeah, I have aphasia. It's really hard. I can't imagine—I just can't imagine how hard life is sometimes.   Lyssa Rome  Yeah, yeah. And I mean, I think what you're describing are some of those moments where aphasia can really get in the way. And I can imagine that as a Black man in America, feeling frozen when someone has asked someone, say like a TSA agent in the airport, is asking you to do something, and you're not sure what they're asking you, there's an extra layer, or many extra layers, of experience, of history, of fear that goes along with that, that I'm not sure—as much as, say a white person who has aphasia can understand the experience of not knowing exactly how to respond to someone, not fully understanding what they're saying. I’m not sure that they can understand that, or it might be harder for them to understand that second level of your experience as a Black man with aphasia.   Michael Obel-Omia Yeah, being a Black man. It is very hard. I don't think on a podcast you can see my face, but I write things the way I look at things. I can look very serious and very angry. But you know, my face is angry and frustrated, and I have to deal with that sometimes. And I can't do anything about it. Sometimes, I look very angry, but it is what it is. And I understand that sometimes I can be looked at this way. It's one of the chances of life.   Lyssa Rome  Michael, you told us about the origins of the National aphasia Association's Black Americans with Aphasia Conversation Group, and talked a little bit about how that group works. I know that there are some other similar groups out there. And one of them is San Francisco State’s Gray Matter Lab, which also has a Black Conversation Group. There are some Spanish-language aphasia groups as well. I'm wondering, what should people know about identity-based aphasia groups? What advice would you have for people who want to start a group like yours?   Michael Obel-Omia Every single lives have aphasia, 24 hours, seven days a week. Always aphasia. Always. When this ends, I have to go back to my house, or my apartment, my home, wherever, and I have to think about aphasia. I'm always thinking about having aphasia. So it's wonderful to think about aphasia for one hour, twice a month, I can relax. I can say what I feel about things. I can laugh. I can stumble and fall over words. And it's okay. That's all right. It's fine. It's wonderful. And that's what this opportunity does every time. We can talk among ourselves, with other Black people, smile, laugh, be comfortable, relax. We can be worried about things sometimes. We can be anxious about fear and anxiety. Mostly we can laugh, what we're doing. And it feels right. It feels good for one hour, once every twice a month. So yeah.   Lyssa Rome So I also had the chance to speak with some other members of the National Aphasia Association's Black Americans with Aphasia Conversation Group. And here's what they had to say about it.   [music]   My next guest is Dr. Roy Hamilton, professor in the departments of neurology, psychiatry and physical medicine and rehabilitation at the University of Pennsylvania, where he's the director of both Penn’s Laboratory for Cognition and Neural Stimulation, and the Penn Brain Science, Translation, Innovation and Modulation Center. Dr. Hamilton also serves on the board of the National Aphasia Association. Dr. Hamilton, welcome to Aphasia Access Conversations.   Roy Hamilton  Thank you. It's such a pleasure to be here.   Lyssa Rome   So tell me a little bit about why you think it's important for Black people for people of color, maybe more generally, with aphasia to have a space to meet with other people who identify in the same way.   Roy Hamilton    Well, first, I want to take a step back and talk about aphasia as it occurs in individuals who identify as Black or African American, you have to understand that aphasia has a couple of principal causes. For many individuals, it's on the basis of having had a stroke. For others, their aphasia arises from having a neurodegenerative condition, something called primary progressive aphasia. But for both of those causes, whether it be neurodegenerative conditions like underlying Alzheimer's pathology, or whether it's vascular disease like stroke, it turns out that individuals who are African American are at substantively higher risk than the rest of the population. And because aphasia is the most common cognitive manifestation of stroke, if we understand that conditions like stroke are much more prevalent in this population, we're also talking about a population that is substantively more burdened by aphasia or challenged by aphasia. So just on the basis of what causes the condition, we understand that we're talking about a population that is at greater risk.   Now, having said that, in addition to the incidence and the prevalence of the condition itself, there are also many, many barriers that prevent individuals who are Black in this country from obtaining all manner of care, and amongst that care, ways to address, or ways to help with their aphasia. And so, targeted efforts are especially important when you're trying to overcome these kinds of barriers.   And then thirdly, in instances where individuals are able to access care, it's often the case that they're treated differently. They receive a different level or a different kind of care than the rest of the population. So that's another reason why it is important to be focused and intentional and to think about creating venues, creating spaces, where we can focus on the needs of individuals who are Black, who are living with aphasia.   Lyssa Rome   So then, tell me about what you think this group is doing for the people who are part of it?   Roy Hamilton   Well, I think one thing that's important about the group is that it provides a sense of community, a level of comfort. I think that that comes through in the kinds of things that are discussed, the kinds of conversations that are had. They often range towards topics that are culturally relevant, that feel comfortable to the group. And here again, I want to draw a distinction or perhaps point to another aspect of having a focused, intentional group that makes it valuable. Groups of individuals who are brought together to have conversations have an easier time having conversations when they are comfortable with each other, when they're comfortable with the setting, and when you're talking about topics that seem relevant to them. So I think bringing all those elements to a conversation group is a particular value. And I think it's a particular value to this group.   Lyssa Rome    You mentioned earlier about the incidence and prevalence of aphasia for Black people in this country. So is there anything else that you want to add that you think is important to have in here, from your perspective?   Roy Hamilton When we're talking about aphasia, and how it affects Black communities, I think the thing that I would emphasize is that this is not an issue that should only be of interest to individuals and communities who are Black, or persons who care for and work with persons with aphasia, who are themselves marginalized, or minoritized individuals. Health equity, and equity around aphasia is everyone's responsibility. And so I think it is perhaps as important, if not more important, that everyone be aware of disparities as they exist in aphasia, for individuals who are Black and other populations as well. And so I'm really glad that we are having this opportunity to have this conversation.   Lyssa Rome  Thank you. I think that that's an important note to end on. And I appreciate it. Thanks so much for taking the time to talk with me today, Dr. Hamilton.   Roy Hamilton Really, it’s my pleasure. Thank you.   [music]   Lyssa Rome  My next guest is Dr. Donald Cunnigen, Professor Emeritus of Sociology at the University of Rhode Island, where he was the first Black full professor of sociology with tenure since the founding of the university in 1892. He was a member of the steering committee that started the Black Americans with Aphasia Conversation Group and continues to be an active member of the group. Doc, welcome to the show.   Doc Cunnigen  Thank you. What has it meant to me? It has been an important place where I can feel comfortable in sharing my experiences as a person who, well, basically suffers from dysarthria.   Once I was in another group, and I mentioned our group. And one of the members turned around and asked, “Why do you need an all-Black group?” And I had to say, “The fact that you asked that question is an indication of why we need the group!”   People feel comfortable in groups where they can express themselves the way they are, and not feel somewhat intimidated if they don’t speak proper English or people are making fun of their dialect. You may not feel free to say things the way you feel like saying them. So we explore issues on a regular basis that deal with our daily lives. And a lot of people don’t fully appreciate that we have a different journey through life as people of color. And we all have different racialized experiences.   There are some commonalities. But the one commonality is that we are Black in America, and that is a special thing in and of itself. And since we have aphasia, it somewhat colors all of our experiences, like negotiating the racism that one might find in institutionalized medicine. Sometimes it’s subtle and other times it’s blatant. But we often encounter it. And this group helps you to deal with it.   Lyssa Rome Yeah, yeah. It sounds like you're describing a space in which you can both be yourself and then also connect with others who have an experience that people who aren't Black—people with Aphasia who don't have that experience of being Black in America—just might have a very hard time understanding. And so to have that space seems like a very important thing.   Doc Cunnigen    Well it helps us to get through the day, but it also helps not only with those institutional things I referenced, but little experiential things that we have, that people with aphasia, dysarthria, or TBI only know. That we have to deal with. People bring up, “Oh I have this problem, or I have that problem.” And we can share those types of things. So this is a very comforting place, where people share with each other the good times and the bad times.   Lyssa Rome What advice would you have for people who are interested in starting identity-based aphasia groups?   Doc Cunnigen   Well, it helps to have someone who is sensitive to one’s cultural or linguistic abilities. That awareness is helpful. It will also help if there is someone who is culturally or linguistically identified with the group, but it’s not necessary, if you have the sensitivity. I think it is important not only for one to be sensitive, but to become a bit knowledgeable. Reciprocity, being able to exchange with the stroke survivor, is critical. Listen. Listening is very difficult for anybody, whether they have aphasia or not. Now that I have difficulty with my speech, I appreciate the ability to listen and have patience. Lyssa Rome Doc Cunnigen, thank you so much for sharing your thoughts about the group. I really appreciate it.   Doc Cunnigen  Thank you for having such a nice program.   [music]   Lyssa Rome    My next guest is Dr. Denise Mendez. Denise is an educator who worked for 29 years as a teacher, administrator, and curriculum coordinator. She has a website: morethanaphasia.com, and a podcast called Still Something to Say. Denise is one of the leaders of the Mid Atlantic Aphasia Conference and the facilitator of the Penn State Alumni Aphasia Group. She also participates in multiple aphasia groups, including San Francisco State’s Black Conversation Group, and the NAA’s Black Americans with Aphasia Conversation Group. Denise, welcome to the podcast.   Denise Mendez    Thank you so much, Lyssa.   Lyssa Rome   Denise, what has the NAA’s Black Americans with Aphasia group meant to you?   Denise Mendez    Well, you know what? The conversation group, it's sort of like—this sounds corny—but it's family, you know. It's a comfortable, safe place for us to check with one another, “How are you? How's everything going?” It's very familial. I don't know, it sounds weird. But like I call some of the folks there, different ones, I'll say like, “Oh, that's my cousin.” You know what I mean? Like, you've got all these cousins down this family line, but aphasia is what made us connected.   So we encourage one another, we teach each other, we just share information from other people. The beautiful thing is, people are all over the United States. It's not just a little group out of Philadelphia, or out of the New England area, because that's where our leaders are, but we're all over the United States. And we're connected. It's very comfortable, where sometimes, different things that happen in the United States, I mean, come on, let's not even go into the whole history of the United States and all of that, but you're going to get different perspectives when it's a group with all African Americans there. You have different perspectives than, say, your general population. What's very good about the groups are the groups are aphasia-friendly. Nobody's talking up here. Nobody's talking underneath anyone. It's just a conversation. It reminds me of how we used to have in the summer, and your whole family would be there. What are those called when your family…   Lyssa Rome    Like a family reunion?   Denise Mendez     Reunion, thank you, when everybody's there. So you've got some young people there, you've got some of the seniors there, you've got the middle group there. But everybody's having a conversation, and everybody's putting a little bit of this on, we're sharing some music, we're sharing some games. And guess what, when people have a bad day, or a rough time, or they just need to vent, it's a space for them to do that as well.   Lyssa Rome    Yeah. That brings me to my next question for you, which is, you know, you've been part of these two groups plus many others. What advice would you have for other people with aphasia who are interested in starting an identity-based aphasia group?   Denise Mendez    You got to have trust, if people don't trust that this is a safe place, that this is a place that I can just say what I want to say, the way I say it, I don't have to measure my words, or people are going to judge me, because I'm using double negatives, or dropping off the INGs and things like that off your words, then it's just a more free conversation.   So I applaud anyone who would like to start an identity-based group. But just know, you can't just wake up and say, you know, I'm gonna do that tomorrow. You've got some homework to do. So do some homework, find out what the need is for the group. And just remember, you've got to be authentic, you may not be a part of the identity group. That doesn't mean you still can't be effective facilitating that group.   Lyssa Rome   I think that's great advice. And I really appreciate hearing from you about what this group has meant to you and also your thoughts about these kinds of identity-based groups in general.   Denise Mendez Yeah.   Lyssa Rome Dr. Denise Mendez, thank you so much for being part of this podcast.   [music]   Lyssa Rome Michael, I know you brought in the mission statement that you wrote, when you were starting the Black Americans with Aphasia Conversation Group. Would you like to share that with us?   Michael Obel-Omia    Yes. The Black American Aphasia Conversation Group is a place for Black people, the patient to share their stories, provide support, encourage meditative reflection, and brainstorm ways to advocate for relevant policies. This diverse, inclusive, aphasia-friendly group will discuss the unique challenges and gifts we share due to our experiences with disability and race. And it's open to all who support its mission of creating an emotional refuge for Black persons living with aphasia.   Lyssa Rome     I think that that mission statement is such an important summary of what you've been talking about, of the kind of space that it sounds like you've been able to create with this group.   Michael Obel-Omia     Well, thank you, thank you so much. With being this part, it's great for you to hear about it.   Lyssa Rome     It sounds like you've found, in that hard work and the advocacy that you've done, you found another way to make a meaningful difference for other Black people with aphasia, who are part of this group.   Michael Obel-Omia     Absolutely. Yes.   Lyssa Rome     Thank you so much for talking with us, for sharing about your group—about the National Aphasia Association’s Black Americans with Aphasia Conversation Group. Michael Obel-Omia, it has been such a pleasure talking with you.   Michael Obel-Omia     Thank you very much.   Lyssa Rome     And thanks to Dr. Roy Hamilton, Doc Cunnigen, Denise Mendez and Darlene Williamson of the National Aphasia Association.   Thank you also to our listeners. For references and resources mentioned in today's show, please see our show notes. They're available on our website, www.aphasiaaccess.org. There you can also become a member of our organization, browse our growing library of materials and find out about the Aphasia Access Academy. If you have an idea for a future podcast episode, email us at [email protected] Thanks again for your ongoing support of Aphasia Access. For Aphasia Access Conversations, I'm Lyssa Rome.