#120: Design - How To Drive More Pipeline by Taking Risks with Design and Brand (with Eli Rubel)

In this episode, Dave is joined by Eli Rubel. Eli is the CEO of Matter Made and NoBoringDesign and a Marketing Advisor for companies like Dropbox and Loom. Eli discusses how companies that take risks with their design and go outside the brand guidelines will stand out in the sea of sameness and drive more pipeline. He also discussesHis framework for focusing on 'micro surfaces' that lead to bigger winsThe importance of timing in email marketingHow to properly analyze the efficiency of your marketing spendTimestamps(00:00) - Design and brand as competitive differentiators (05:18) - Navigating Early-Stage Companies (08:02) - Performance Marketing (13:49) - How to determine 'Demand Efficiency' (17:41) - A new way to think about design (22:42) - Maximizing Micro Opportunities (29:35) - Diversifying Channels (30:38) - Elevating Brand Aesthetics (33:54) - Design Differentiation (40:06) - Standing Out with Design and Branding (45:32) - Free Tools and Design Investments (46:59) - Closing Thoughts Send guest pitches and ideas to [email protected] the Exit Five Newsletter here: https://www.exitfive.com/newsletterCheck out the Exit Five job board: https://jobs.exitfive.com/Become an Exit Five member: https://community.exitfive.com/checkout/exit-five-membership***Today's episode is brought to you by Customer.io.You know that feeling when you open your inbox, and it’s just… noise? Bad marketing. Spam. Most companies are out here just talking at customers, not talking to them.Marketing messages should do more than just land in an inbox – they should create impact and drive real engagement.Customer.io helps companies send smarter, more personalized messages using first-party data. Their platform enables brands to reach customers at the right time, in the right place, on the right channel—whether that’s email, SMS, push notifications, or beyond.And the best part is that it’s all automated, so you’re not just blasting campaigns and hoping for the best. You’re running a machine that delivers real, human engagement at scale.7,000+ brands already trust Customer.io to make their marketing feel less like noise and more like connection. Join them by visiting Customer.io to get started. ***Thanks to my friends at hatch.fm for producing this episode and handling all of the Exit Five podcast production.They give you unlimited podcast editing and strategy for your B2B podcast.Get unlimited podcast editing and on-demand strategy for one low monthly cost. Just upload your episode, and they take care of the rest.Visit hatch.fm to learn more