After pardons for independence leaders, what comes next?

On June 23, 2021, after three and a half years behind bars, nine Catalan politicians and activists in jail for their roles during the 2017 independence push were released after receiving pardons from the Spanish president.  We look back on that historic day and the lead up to it and discuss what lies ahead, with a return to negotiations between the Spanish and Catalan governments on the horizon.  Alan Ruiz Terol joins Lorcan Doherty to discuss why, within the independence camp, the pardons have been given a lukewarm reception, seen as a half measure falling well short of a general amnesty. Marc Sanjaume-Calvet, professor of political science at the Open University of Catalonia, explains why the Spanish executive took this decision to pardon the independence leaders, and the impact the move could have on Spanish politics as a whole.   This week's Catalan phrase is "Per Sant Joan, el primer bany," meaning that Saint John's Eve, June 23, is the night for the first swim of the year.