Security in an Evolving Asia Business Environment

Contact Ron Efron on LinkedInVisit BluOceanFollow Asia Business Podcast on LinkedIn Full show Transcript below Summary and Timestamps Security in an Evolving Asia Business EnvironmentIn this episode of the Asia Business Podcast, host Art Dicker interviews Ron Efron, the director of BluOcean Security, about the comprehensive security services they offer multinational clients across the Asia Pacific. Ron shares insights into the origins and rapid growth of BluOcean Security, detailing their specialization in physical security systems like electronic security components and access management. He discusses the unique security needs of Fortune 500 companies, the impact of COVID-19 on security definitions and practices, and the increasing shift towards cloud-based security solutions. Ron also addresses the challenges and opportunities arising from geopolitical changes and migration strategies of multinationals out of China. The conversation touches on the complexities of navigating regulations, the adoption of facial recognition technology, and the importance of being agile and prepared for the future in the security industry.Introduction Welcome readers to an in-depth exploration into the realm of BluOcean Security, a premium security firm reshaping the landscape of security services across Asia Pacific. In this blog post, we delve into an exclusive conversation with Ron Efron, the director at BluOcean Security, shedding light on the company's journey, services, and the evolving dynamics of security in today's interconnected world. The Genesis of BluOcean Security Ron Efron, with a rich history in the security industry dating back to the late nineties, leads the charge at BluOcean Security. Founded in the end of 2018, the company swiftly established itself as a trusted partner for multinational clients seeking top-notch security solutions in the Asia Pacific region. Unraveling BluOcean Security's Offerings BluOcean Security stands out as a physical security systems integrator, specializing in safeguarding clients' assets and facilities through a wide array of security solutions. From electronic security components to comprehensive security consulting, the company caters to clients who prioritize security and compliance with international standards. Navigating Security Risks and Client Needs In the quest for fortified security measures, BluOcean Security collaborates closely with clients, especially Fortune 500 companies with operations spread across Asia Pacific. The company aligns its offerings with the unique security risks and compliance requirements of each client, ensuring a tailored approach to security solutions. Adapting to the Shifting Security Landscape As the world witnesses monumental shifts in how businesses operate post-pandemic, BluOcean Security underscores the significance of staying ahead in the security domain. From remote working challenges to the surge in cloud migration, the company emphasizes the crucial role of evolving security practices to meet the demands of a changing world. Embracing Technological Advancements and Privacy Concerns In the era of emerging technologies like facial recognition and AI, BluOcean Security remains vigilant towards the sensitivities surrounding data collection and privacy. The company navigates the fine balance between leveraging advanced security technologies and respecting privacy boundaries, showcasing a nuanced approach to modern security challenges. Navigating Global Security Standards and Regional Dynamics With a firm foothold in multiple Asian markets, BluOcean Security is adept at tackling diverse security challenges across borders. The company's agility and expertise shine through as they assist clients in navigating the complex web of security standards, compliance regulations, and regional nuances prevalent in the dynamic security landscape. Embracing Growth Opportunities in the Security SectorAs the security sector witnesses continued growth and transformation, BluOcean Security stands poised to embrace new opportunities and expand its footprint across emerging markets. By offering cutting-edge security solutions and unparalleled expertise, the company positions itself as a trusted partner for clients seeking to fortify their security measures in an ever-evolving world. Conclusion In conclusion, BluOcean Security, under the leadership of Ron Efron, exemplifies a beacon of innovation and reliability in the realm of security services. With a commitment to excellence, a keen eye on emerging trends, and a penchant for navigating complex security landscapes, the company continues to carve a niche for itself as a leading security solutions provider in the Asia Pacific region. Stay tuned for more insights and updates from BluOcean Security as they continue to redefine the contours of security in a rapidly changing world. TIMESTAMPS00:00 Introduction to the Episode and Guest00:44 Exploring Blue Ocean Security with Ron Efron02:19 The Core Services and Clientele of BluOcean Security06:31 Adapting to Security Needs in the COVID-19 Era09:22 The Shift Towards Cloud-Based Security Solutions13:43 Navigating Data Security and Compliance Challenges18:59 Emerging Technologies and Privacy Concerns25:49 Global Trends and the China Plus One Strategy30:41 Closing Remarks and Contact Information TRANSCRIPTArt Dicker: Welcome, everybody, to another episode of The Asia Business Podcast. I'm your host, Art Dicker. Art Dicker: Today, we have the wonderful pleasure of having Ron Efron join us. Ron is the Director at Blue Ocean Security, a premium security firm offering comprehensive services including security consulting, systems integration, and security management to multinational clients throughout the Asia Pacific. Art Dicker: Ron, welcome. Ron Efron: Thank you, Art. It's good to be here. Art Dicker: Yeah, and you have a podcast of your own, which we'll give you a chance to talk about in a minute and tell us a little bit about. For the audience, what Blue Ocean Security does, what it's about, and you're relatively new, but I know you've grown quickly and had quite a lot of success right off the bat. Art Dicker: So give us a little bit of an intro about the company. Ron Efron: Sure. Blue Ocean Security is what you would call a physical security systems integrator, and we provide services that revolve around that. So what it basically means is that when you walk into a building today, you'll see electronic security components such as cameras, turnstiles, or various access locks to doors. We're essentially protecting the perimeter, the facilities, and access to those facilities in various ways. That's what we're doing for multinational clients in Asia Pacific. To be more specific, we focus on clients that take their security seriously. Not all companies prioritize security, and we specialize in those that do. We serve clients with facilities across the Pacific, and we've been quite successful at that. Blue Ocean is relatively new. We started at the end of 2018. Personally, I've been in this business since the late nineties, started my first business in Beijing, and grew that business across Asia Pacific. I sold that and exited in 2015. Then we started Blue Ocean Security with a group of my ex-employees, and myself. We decided to get back into the business because we saw that there were still opportunities. So, we got the band back together, so to speak. Art Dicker: Yeah, and like I said, you've done very well and you've expanded rapidly to different locations throughout the region. Can you, now that you've given us a nice introduction of what the company does, what are clients looking for when they're coming to you? At a high level, can you walk us through some of those chief security risks? You mentioned physical security and stuff like that, but what's often a trigger point when a client comes to you? What's usually the first thing that they're worried about? Ron Efron: First of all, we focus a lot on multinationals, primarily Fortune 500 companies that have operations around Asia Pacific. For most of these companies, they not only have concerns about security, but they also have certain standards they need to comply with—internal standards or otherwise. They generally know what their needs are and they need to tailor-make those needs to the facilities in different countries. So, they take a standard that may have originated in North America or Europe and adapt it to comply with the standards in New Delhi, Jakarta, or China. Maintaining an international level of expertise and service across Asia Pacific is really our specialty. Additionally, we merge those local risks into the design. When we start working with a client, they'll come to us with a new facility. We'll work with them to do a full design and list of equipment needed, then procure the various components and move on to installation, programming, and commissioning. Every project is different, and risks and needs vary as well. Art Dicker: How do you handle cases like the ones where, let's put it amusingly, cameras need to survive explosions? Do you ever encounter such non-routine requests and wonder where to find such specialized equipment?Art Dicker: Are you tapping into a similar set of suppliers and vendors you usually work with, or do you sometimes need to find very specialized ones, like in that example?Ron Efron: Yeah, we've been in the business for a long time, so we know where to find that. Occasionally, we have to resort to custom-made solutions. But even then, we work with suppliers who can meet the required standards. Take, for instance, explosion-proof housing for cameras. That's a very unique product type that needs to comply with specific standards. There are various levels of explosion protection, similar to bulletproof glass, with standards dictating thickness and capability.Art Dicker: We talked about this before recording, but as with any business, COVID has changed things. One of the most obvious examples is remote and hybrid working, but other aspects have been affected too, including supply chains. How has COVID impacted your industry, particularly regarding the multinational clients you serve? What changes have been most notable?Ron Efron: COVID has significantly broadened the definition of security, encompassing issues such as pandemics and business continuity planning. It's raised questions about the responsibility for employee safety when they're working remotely. Also, concerns emerged about safeguarding data when employees are working from home, ensuring the same level of security as in-office setups. There's also a growing trend around employee well-being intersecting with security. Security departments are now collaborating more closely with HR, legal, and cybersecurity teams, even occupying a seat at the C-suite table to advise on navigating this new landscape.Art Dicker: You mentioned some of the data and security aspects. Obviously, there's been a huge trend, speaking of COVID, changing the way we work and so forth. There's been a huge trend towards migrating everything to the cloud. Is that something that you've been dealing with as well with your customers and some of the security challenges there?Ron Efron: For sure. Yeah, and we can talk for hours just about this subject alone. Yes, and it is the normal evolution of technology. If you think about it on the IT side, there's already been a lot of migration to the cloud. A lot of the tools we use everything from Microsoft Office to Teams or your ERP system, be it Salesforce or NetSuite or anything else, it's already on the cloud. Security being a bit more conservative, it's just taking them longer to adapt to a lot of those cloud technologies. And that's normal. We've seen it also in the past when there is a change between analog video to digital video back in the early 2000s, for example, there's the same kind of transition process. With the cloud, a lot of it really comes down to people's perception that it is perceived to be less secure than having everything hardwired in your facility. And in most cases, that's just a perception and in most cases, that's not true. So you have to deal with that. And there's a lot of education around that as well, but we're seeing a lot of trends of companies moving more and more into the cloud. It's starting with smaller companies and slowly being adopted by those larger multinationals as well. And there's no way around that. You cannot not make that move to the cloud. We also see some real challenges, for example, like in China with the great firewall and how companies deal with that sometimes, and there's ways to deal with that, but that trend is here and it's pretty much here to stay and we embrace it. We are always recommending it or at least components or parts of security to be more cloud-based. And basically what this means is that companies can avoid having a server on their premise. Server is actually in Azure or AWS and Amazon or some other cloud facility. And another part of it is the database is maintained on the cloud. And in many cases, video is being more and more recorded and stored on the cloud as well. That's where you're seeing that.Art Dicker: Which I guess from what I'm hearing, it's all much more secure and actually than anything that server is sitting in the office is actually, it's actually a prime liability or vulnerability.Ron Efron: Exactly. So if you're a medium-sized company there's pretty much no way that your cybersecurity is a higher level than Amazon and AWS or Microsoft Azure. Or the amount of money they spend on security on their data centers. The physical security around data centers and their cybersecurity around data centers and all the tests and penetration tests and everything to do around that. There's really no way most companies can have that same level of security. And then it comes down to people engineering, right? So people try to get through that through other ways like phishing scams otherwise you can't get you. You're right. So you can't the degree of cybersecurity will never be at the same level. Therefore, and then you need to, so it is worth it to move down to the cloud from that point of view, actually more secure in many cases. It's also cheaper. And it's just becoming more and more cheaper but there's other things around cybersecurity that you can be more worried about and concerned about, and that's more around the human elements.Art Dicker: Yeah, you mentioned though that, that, it started that trend of the cloud started with small companies and that really was, AWS, right? That was why should I pay for, you pay what you use as far as software licenses and. And storage and computing power and so forth. Interesting that and I imagine security, right? People probably were educated and recognize that, um, and speaking of security, cybersecurity and data security are obviously very important and as the kind of the value of data increases what it can be used for and so forth. How has the importance of data to a company increased the demands for your business from a security perspective?Ron Efron: It depends on the company in many cases as well. So some companies, they take their data, they're more data-centric, they take that more seriously than other companies, but there are two trends here. One is the general security trend where we're seeing more and more hacking and ransomware attacks and other types of phishing attacks, which are real practical risks that companies of all sizes have to deal with on a day-to-day basis. You also have an increase in regulations and compliance needs that companies also need to be increasingly complying with. And in your world as known on the law side, on the legal side of things, we're seeing that pretty much every country in the world, everything from Europe's GDPR to China's PIPL. And so you have to have certain measures in place that have some basic safeguarding of data. So even if you're not worried about it too much, there's an increasing need to be compliant with those regulations. A third part is that if you're working with other companies that take their data seriously, if you have any contractual relationship with them, you'll likely see more and more increased incidents where there are cyber-related clauses in your contract, things that you need to do and insurance that you need to buy, and it's not cheap to have an extra layer of security there so those are all multiple forces that are pushing people to take this issue more seriously.Art Dicker: I do. And I see that in contracts. You're absolutely right and whether it's a rep and warranty or specifically calling out sys, standards that need to be met or requirements for reliability and both from the server being up and standpoint and so forth. And that's the world we live in. And maybe 10 years ago, people didn't pay nearly as much attention to it, but they do. And I wanted to I wonder in your world, how much you have to stay on top of that, right? Even maybe even thinking a step ahead, right? Regulations coming out that are starting to slowly come out, for example, on artificial intelligence or obviously, for the longest time we saw in China that, we, the legal world goes to China doesn't have a comprehensive data, data privacy law. Now it does. And we saw it coming. So I imagine that's probably a big part of what you're, you don't want to be reacting to a trend right on the regular regulatory side. So how much do you have to stay on top of that, see regulations coming out and say, Oh, that's a compliance challenge that they're gonna have to come to us for. Right.Ron Efron: Look, it's just smart business, to be honest, we want to be. Within our organization, we have people that are constantly looking at the future in terms of trends and technology. So that's one side of things like what's evolving around technology. What are things going to look like in the future? How can we be a better consultant to our customers where we're offering them a system that's. What we try to say future-proof that it won't be obsolete in a couple of years and have to buy a new one. So that's one side. The other side is, of course, the regulation side. It's not just the regulations around data, but it's also other types of regulation that any business would be interested in. But of course, we want to understand that and then be ready for the other side to your question is that it helps us to be more ready when we're being pulled in that direction by our customers as well. So when a customer comes to us and says, Hey, we're worried about this. We don't want to start stumbling over ourselves to try to answer that. We want to be ready with an answer. I said no, this is what we're seeing. This is what some of our other customers are doing that is some of our partners are are telling us, for example, in China, around the PIPL, we do have some existing relationships with some law firms that specialize in this as well, that we can refer clients to if we need to work with them together, to be honest, a lot of our larger customers, they have large legal teams in place and what we do is we help educate the security teams around that so that they are being able to work better with their internal legal departments. And when they need to put something together, that they're better prepared for that. So for example, in the security world, if you have a global database of your employees and you're, that's moving digitally between China and other countries, there are certain legal processes that you need to go through now in China with their new with their new privacy laws. So that's something that we can try to help adapt the system to better suit their needs in their specific situation.Art Dicker: And speaking of it, it certainly touches on China to some extent, but not exclusively to China. Are there sensitivities speaking of sort of personal data, one of those personal data is facial recognition, right? At least indirectly. Are there any sensitivities you've encountered with this or other emerging technologies where you're it may for your clients? And I imagine it's a sensitive issue, not just for you, but for your clients as well, where it might enhance these things from a security perspective. But again, you have to be cognizant of sensitivities around some of the data you're collecting and your system is collecting, right?Ron Efron: Yes, for sure. And again, different companies have different cultures and different backgrounds and different ways of dealing with that. Excuse me. So for example, European countries and companies are going to be more sensitive to such issues, whereas Asian companies might be less sensitive to that just culturally. And the U.S. is somewhere in the middle. We have some international schools as clients that are also very worried about that, and there are various ways of dealing with that. So the facial recognition technology is not necessarily keeping your record of people's faces. It keeps other signatures. So there are other ways to deal with that and be sensitive to people's privacy and all that. But in terms of adoption and in terms of perception, that it really comes down to those their home culture biases. In many ways, but it's, that's not the only type of technology that's out there, but it is becoming more and more widespread. Another thing is that it's not cheap. It's actually quite expensive to have facial recognition. So that's also another inhibitor to its widespread adoption, but it's just one more technology out there. Like here in Asia and Singapore, for example, the airport is full of it. You, every gate that you pass, every inspection point is done with facial recognition today. It's not done with people looking at your passport and your. You're seeing it more and more in office buildings as well. That being said, in China, it is pretty much everywhere. Oh yeah. So every visitor management system, if you go into a building and you're visiting a client or a supplier, you're going to go through a process where they scan your passport, they take a photo of you and everything, and then to get into the actual elevator bank, you have to pass through a turnstile that's probably looking at your face. And it captures that. For Chinese citizens, it's even a step more where it's all linked to their Alipay accounts and sometimes they can do a transaction just by looking into a camera without even using their phone at all, which is pretty scary.Art Dicker: You beat me to it, butRon Efron: what we are seeing though, is that some of these technologies that are in China are evolving within China and not outside of China, even to a point that we, once we approached a Chinese facial recognition product company, and they told us straight out that they're not selling outside of China, that they're just, there's not doing that market.Ron Efron: Yeah.Art Dicker: It's big enough market in China, for that anyway but yeah, maybe I can see why not.Ron Efron: That is true, but I am worried that longer term, there might be dual standards in the world. There's going to be a China standard and a global standard for various things, not just security, you see it also, there might be on communication network protocols. There might be other aspects that the China, Chinese government are going to try to have their own for various reasons.Art Dicker: Does that present a challenge for your clients? Having to be on both sides of the Great Firewall, for example, and having dual standards for things?Ron Efron: It hasn't got to the point where you need to, at the protocol level, that things are different.Ron Efron: No, I haven't seen that yet. But I think at a larger global geopolitical element, China is trying to be more of an influencer on global standards. And, due to their size, they, you can understand that, most of our customers, they're trying to be compliant with like international norms.Ron Efron: So a way you might have seen this in news recently were in the past where some CCTV products were banned in the U.S. government, at least. So that has trickled down to some companies as well. And we're not trying to push that one way or the other. If a client comes to us and says they don't want, they want to exclude certain brands from their design, that's okay. And others, that's not an issue for them. They want to see all the options. So we cater to them and based on their needs.Art Dicker: That begs the question. And to, to what extent. Obviously, because so much so many things are manufactured in China, right? What extent.Art Dicker: I'll use that extreme example, in here, and I'm sure you caught this in the port up in Long Beach. They're talking about tearing down the cranes system that I think it's a real story because of this perceived security risk with the, the operating system, essentially, for the cranes is the part or all the cranes are made in China, including that operating system, and that's seen as a national security risk.Art Dicker: So they're thinking of ripping out the cranes and replacing them with American made cranes. I don't know if America even makes those kinds of cranes for docking and transporting the things on and offshore. But that's an example of where Chinese hardware, right? Or, and I guess software as well is. is seen as less trustworthy.Art Dicker: Has that been an issue with your, with any of your clients so far?Ron Efron: Only for those specific brands that have been added to that formal list of products, that's really to the extent of it. Other than that, if a product is owned by an American company, but made in China like an Apple phone, for example,Art Dicker: we don't really see.Art Dicker: Everything is made in China, right?Ron Efron: That is changing to, to, to a degree but yes that, that's less of a concern than it just comes down to that brand and their reputation and all that. Yeah, what you touched on, who knows if that's, it could be true, is it based on true security risk or not, that might be a different question.Ron Efron: There are certain things that, it's, would be legitimate for governments to be worried about. And there are certain things that it might, there might be other interests involved, paranoiaArt Dicker: there, yeah.Ron Efron: Or other business interests, maybe there's a local crane company that that's, a benefit to getArt Dicker: that business.Art Dicker: That's hard.Ron Efron: It's harder to unpack.Art Dicker: Yeah, that's fair. Yeah. Who has lots of motivations, potentially. Um, speaking of China, and I wanted to, This is a big question, so I wanted to, to. To end on this 1 I imagine you've got a team working with a lot of multinational companies in China, but as we all know, when we talked in this podcast before there's a bit of a migration or a de risking.Art Dicker: From China. It's been there for a while. The whole China plus one strategy. But that seems to be accelerating quite a bit in the last few years, especially coming out of COVID going to Vietnam or elsewhere, especially in, those other countries where you're operating. And I wonder to what extent you're continuing to work with those clients as they move and help them with that planning from a security perspective.Art Dicker: How has that trend impacted you and your business and how you're serving your clients?Ron Efron: So the trend is definitely clear out of all the countries who work within Asia. We're seeing the least amount of growth actually in China and a lot more activity in countries like Vietnam, like the Philippines, like India, for sure.Ron Efron: Even here in Singapore and even in Japan, which kind of surprised me last year. Yeah. It's understandable due to the geopolitical sort of wins that are happening and COVID a lot of boardrooms around the world are saying, wait, we don't want to have all our eggs in one basket. We need to have some contingencies in place.Ron Efron: What if something happens again? What can we do? So due to that, you're seeing strategies where the supply chains are less centralized, in China, and it is a bit more thinking going on. On top of that, you also have their own domestic markets in Asia, also in high growth mode. So India obviously is the big, the bigger one, but Vietnam, the Philippines Indonesia, all of these are potential new markets as well for consumers, not only to manufacture, but also to sell.Ron Efron: And for example, with Apple. Not only are they starting to make phones in India, but they just opened their first Apple store in India. So if that trends continue, there'll be a lot more growth there as well. And that's also due to the government in India have changed some of their regulations around retail laws.Ron Efron: And they're a bit more pro business, or business friendly compared to the past. But the bottom line is for us, that just means more opportunities. Yeah. So companies are growing, building more facilities, building more factories around the region. And that's business that we like to help our customers with in terms of challenges.Ron Efron: It's what we know from the past that we know how to operate in Asia. So it's the normal challenges of building your capacity, hiring good people, making sure they know, how to do their job well and having all the infrastructure in place so that you can grow with your customers. The challenge that actually becomes a challenge.Ron Efron: And it's much harder than you think, like doing a project or simultaneously doing projects in Tokyo, Sydney, Jakarta, and in Bangalore is not that easy. And because you're dealing with very different environments, very different people and different challenges, but that's, No, that's what we know. And that's what we we're pretty good at actually.Art Dicker: I was going to say, that's probably, that's gotta be your advantage, right? That you can seamlessly work across different geographies like that. That's gotta be a selling point for you and a competitive advantage for you guys.Ron Efron: For sure. And then our largest competitor in this space is is my old company.Art Dicker: Yeah. So you've got, But, and I imagine too, you're also quite, you know, you're easy to open up in new markets and it's because you're, you're a private company, right? You're young in your DNA, right? You're experienced in your, in the management team, but as a company, you're young in your DNA.Art Dicker: So you're probably more, more nimble, right? I guess is what I should say.Ron Efron: I would hope so. And the fact that COVID started pretty much after, when we started our company, we were, even when we started, we had, we envisioned that would be more spread out and take advantage of the newer technologies at the time to be able to work across a region in a very efficient way.Ron Efron: And then COVID came, it just really forced that even faster upon everybody, but we were ready for that in some way. And that helped us. To even sharpen our skills further. So that we ended up coming out stronger from that. I think,Art Dicker: yeah, no, I can tell. And and I think the audits can tell just listening to you that, that, that.Art Dicker: That you're that's a challenge that's actually been good for your business and you've met that challenge. Oh, Ron if people listening in the audience want to reach out to you for maybe they have they're at a multinational company and they're looking, they're going to a new country like India, Indonesia, or one of these other markets that you're in, how is the best way for them to reach out to you, LinkedIn or another way or the website or, What's the best way?Ron Efron: Sure. Our company website is blueoceanssecurity.com. Blue is B L U, ocean security. And you can find my LinkedIn as well. And I'm sure you can add a email in your show notes. Yep,Art Dicker: absolutely. FeelRon Efron: free to reach out to me. It's funny, we just when we came up with our name today, when you're starting new companies or new domain names It's getting harder and harder.Ron Efron: Yeah. You have to drop valve. It does getArt Dicker: harder. Yeah. But I like it. It's a little more,Ron Efron: unique.Art Dicker: It's a little, it not edgy, but it's, it's a little more unique. But you have to be unique, as you said, to for these days. Registering company or a, or website. It's aRon Efron: bit.Ron Efron: It's a bit play on the words of that book, The Blue Origin Strategy, where we're trying to not work in a very competitive environment, but come up with products and services that, you we're not competing directly on with competitors. And that's part of the vision there.Art Dicker: Okay. Hey, Ron, it was a real treat to have you on and and I'm sure the audience will love listening to this.Art Dicker: It's a topic that I think is not talked about enough. And so that was definitely a reason why we had to do this episode. I thank you, want to thank you for joining us and I'm sure the audience got a lot out of this. Thanks Ron for coming on.Ron Efron: Thank youhttps://www.asiabusinesspod.com/ This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.asiabusinesspod.com