The Shakeup: Holding space, bit on in politics and the spies among us

Dozens of bills were passed in parliament this week; one will ban kids from socials.     Also, does demonising Joe Rogan just insult millions of people, particularly men?  Plus, there's a spy shortage in some countries.  And if it's not Defying Gravity, what else are we holding space for?  Host Dave Marchese is joined by journalists Perry Duffin and Charlotte Mortlock.  Tell us what you want to hear more of in 2025. Fill out the hack survey today.