Crisis Communication w/ Michael Bourque

Crisis can bring about interesting times….  And it’s in times of crisis when, as employers and leaders, you need to step back, be sure you are focused on the right priorities, and then lean in to support your team.  Now more than ever, workers need to know that their leadership is committed to their health and safety.  Intentional regular communication is a critical part of balancing the immediate response to any crisis with workplace safety, and worker wellbeing.  Planning for crisis communication, meeting people where they are, and the delivery are all critical parts of the communications puzzle.  This is Peter Koch, host of the MEMIC Safety Experts Podcast and in this episode I speak with Michael Bourque, President and CEO of MEMIC.  Drawing from more than 30 years experience developing and delivering messages with employees, peers, and external contacts, Michael discusses concentric circles of communication planning and lessons learned from supporting workplace teams through challenging times.  Check it out on your favorite podcast platform or at www.memic.com/podcast. *** Peter Koch: Hello, listeners, and welcome to the MEMIC’s Safety Experts podcast. I'm your host, Peter Koch. Crises can bring about interesting times and it's times of crisis when as employers and leaders, we need to step back, be sure that we're focused on the right priorities and then lean in to support our team. Now, more than ever, workers need to know that their leadership is committed to their health and safety. Regular communication is a critical part of balancing the response in any crises, workplace safety and worker well-being. [00:00:30] I'm your host, Peter Koch, and on the phone with me today is Michael Bourque, president and CEO of Main Employers Mutual Insurance Company, or MEMIC. And we're going to dig into the communications puzzle as it relates to employees and workplace management during a crisis. Hey, Mike, welcome to the podcast. Michael Bourque: Hey, thanks, Peter. It's a crucial topic and a perfect time to be talking about all of this, that's for sure. That's sort of our everyday right now. Peter Koch: Yeah, it is our every day. I think things are changing rapidly and kind [00:01:00] of getting used to this new normal is pretty challenging. So I'm really excited to have you here today and you're experience at MEMIC as a communicator has gone on for quite a while, and you've been involved in communications at MEMIC since its inception. And even prior to you being at MEMIC, you were in a position that had you working in communications as a reporter. So the first question I want to throw at you today is before you came to MEMIC, [00:01:30] what did your time as a reporter teach you about communicating in a crisis? Because that might be a critical setup to some of the things that we talk about going on in the podcast today. Michael Bourque: Well, you know, I think one of the things reporters always learn is that when a reporter calls, sometimes that means it's a crisis automatically to a lot of people who you don't think you want to hear a reporter on the phone, especially if you have a hint that there's something that may not be perfect that you're about to talk about. But the biggest [00:02:00] mistake that people make in talking when something seems like it might be a little bit wrong is clamming up, not saying anything, because, I mean, you know, as soon as you hear somebody say no comment, if you hear that, you think, all right, there's something wrong, there must be something wrong. They wouldn't say no comment if they would be able to comment. And if that was true and you know, of course, the truth is most people are just being conservative and trying to be smart, maybe saying, I don't want to say anything until I have all the facts. I don't want to make a mistake. [00:02:30] But that in and of itself says something. So, you know, one of those first lessons is that you have to communicate. Now, there are different ways to communicate. I can't talk about that right now. But this sort of no comment, tightlipped, nope, refused to talk to you. That generally is something that will start to stir the pot and maybe end up getting you in more trouble than when you started. Peter Koch: Yeah, that makes sense. I've had that experience before in a past life, having [00:03:00] a reporter call me or an attorney call me and then getting into that position where I'd just clam up. I have no comment at this time. And initially that didn't set me up for great communication later on, I thought it was the right response initially, but then interestingly enough, the questions came from the other employees that I was with, the management group that I was with that were wondering what was going on. [00:03:30] Like they didn't have the information either. And I was putting out a message of no comment, which was protective, but it wasn't communicative. It didn't really talk about what was happening to the extent that I could. It didn't set up my team for, really a good relationship with the information and understanding what was going on. Michael Bourque: Yeah. I think, I mean, you know, it's one thing when it's a lawyer that's sometimes that is the time to be quiet. But, you know, somebody is sort of digging for something [00:04:00] in particular or you don't have the information. But I think in general, when you have something that is already external to some degree, you know, you can't stop information from flowing if it's started to flow. You have to be responsive to it. And that means responsive is sort of what the what the perception is that's being built already. Sometimes if something difficult has occurred and then you refuse to talk about it, then the assumption is, well, there must be something even more wrong  [00:04:30]than you're willing to speak about. Peter Koch: Sure. Do you have any examples in your history where that tactic really turned around to either bite you or the individual or the group that made that no comment? The silence instead of presenting some better information for the question. Michael Bourque: You know, not in my personal career [00:05:00] experience other than as the reporter, you know, asking an organization about something and having no comment and saying, OK, well, I'm going to ask somebody else. And then getting further comment from somebody else who is probably less official and maybe even had less information about exactly what had occurred inside the organization. I won't bring up the company, it was a company. It actually did involve a workplace injury, a significant one that had occurred at a press actually, at a printing press. When I was a reporter. [00:05:30] And so that was an example of it turned out they got more information out. And then a group of employees who wanted to talk about it and was not good news for that employer, they could have they could have stopped it. If we just had a conversation at the outset. Peter Koch: Yeah, it probably would have been able to manage the information flow and also get the message, the important message out instead of any message out. And I think that's a key point to consider [00:06:00] here when we're talking. What is the important message? So as we think about providing information or communicating with employees in a crisis, trying to understand what the important message is. So not only what do you want them to know, but what did they need to hear in order to be able to manage their own position, their own place and the things in their life that surround the situation at that time? Michael Bourque: Yeah. I mean, we sort of look at a [00:06:30] grid of stakeholders who are the stakeholders who needs to know who, and then what, what message they need to hear and messenger who delivers the message actually matters as well. Is it a close, trusted supervisor? Is it the CEO of an organization? Is it somebody external? I think those are all considerations to make. And you really can sort of draw up a plan pretty quickly if you think about it from that perspective. Peter Koch: Yeah. I think one of the takeaways there is to have a plan. I mean, crisis is going [00:07:00] to come up. We're living in the time right now where this is really unprecedented. How are you just communicating at all? So instead of doing this together in the studio at our office, we're doing this over the phone, communicating over quite a few miles at this point in time using technology. So even communication today is different in the way we do it and not just the message but having a plan. So if crisis happens, what do we think about, what do we want to talk about, who makes [00:07:30] the decisions, who delivers the message? Those are all good parts to have in that particular plan. So let's talk a little bit about your experience here at MEMIC when you were the senior vice president of external communications. I think that was the correct title. Is that right? Or just vice president of communications Michael Bourque:  It was External Affairs was officially the title. It included communications, lots of communications. Peter Koch: Lots of communications.  [00:08:00]So how did your time as a reporter sort of form your tactics on communicating to the external groups and also to internal groups about different news and things that were happening. So how did your time as a reporter inform your process of communications? Michael Bourque: Well, that's a good question. My time as a reporter, it was a little bit different way to think, but it sort of it evolved over time as I came in. I mean, certainly I had an understanding [00:08:30] of how the media works and how people hear about things and how people deal with bad news and good news. But it's received you know, one of the theories that I sort of quickly adopted, when I came to MEMIC was that of the idea of concentric circles of communication. So it's part of the stakeholder model, but it really is thinking about your various audiences as they move out from the center. And one mistake that organizations often made in those days and [00:09:00] you know, they're better and better at it now, all though not all of us are great, was forgetting the employees in that part of the concentric circle. You communicate with your senior management. You communicate with your board of directors who are all really close, those sorts of things. But the next line is really your employee group, and they can be, ultimately, they will amplify your message outside from what they hear. So the value that they provide. Plus what the news means to them is usually a lot [00:09:30] as stakeholders who are that closely tied to an organization who may have to execute some of what it is that the future may hold. They really are important, and you can't forget them. And so thinking about employees next and then thinking about policyholders, customers, injured workers, agents, those next close partners, and then sort of the larger world inclusive of public policymakers, you can never forget that you're also communicating within a certain environment and that's a stake holding group. That cares [00:10:00] very much about how you operate as an organization, as an insurance company we're highly regulated. So talking to our regulators about things that are happening on a daily basis, I've already spoken to Superintendent Insurance last Monday. As soon as we went to this home part of this pandemic policy. So things like that I think are important. So that perspective, I guess I don't know that I developed that as a reporter, but I very quickly saw the benefit of that when I came to [00:10:30] work for MEMIC. Peter Koch: So that's a that's a really interesting tactic on considering communications, those concentric circles and looking at how your organization or what your organization interacts with. So like you said, your team and then not taking for granted that the team that you communicated with is going to get the message out, but really making the plan, to, OK, Who is going to deliver the message? What message is going to be delivered? When is it going to be delivered and how [00:11:00] is it going to get out beyond in those circles that that connect to your company but are not directly related to the internal workings of the company? Michael Bourque: You know, there's always an informal network that occurs. It's absolutely right. You have to create a plan and feed those people, whether it's you know, people call talking points in the industry now. But I think essentially, what are we hearing from the top or from the management? And what does it mean? And so if you have that group, feel well-informed, trusted [00:11:30] and in a good frame of mind, they will then help amplify your message out into the field, into their contacts. If you miss that step, that can be really problematic. Peter Koch: Absolutely. Funny. As I was  preparing for this I was thinking about some of the communications challenges that I've had over the years, both here at MEMIC and at other organizations where I've worked and either having been the one to receive the message and [00:12:00] then deliver the message further down or the one to have to create a message and then deliver it out. And there has been some times where I've made the mistake of assuming that when I delivered the message, whether I created it or I was the receiver and then had to pass it on, would assume that the people that I was passing it on to would deliver it to the next circle, that next group that they would touch. And sometimes forgetting that they had a touch point to some of those [00:12:30] other concentric circles outside of our organization. So talking to some of the employees that might have a connection with an outside service group that might be coming in or a distributor or another partner within the organization or outside of the organization that they would communicate. So we give them, we gave the employees, or the department group a message, but we didn't really talk about. So where [00:13:00] does this message go from there? Like, what parts of this are appropriate for you to share with the people who are tangentially associated with our organization? Michael Bourque: Yeah, no, that's usually important. And that's sort of partly what you talk about, about having a plan and being deliberate. I think you really do have too. And none of us is perfect at this. There's no question it's hard. But having a plan upfront and then realizing, OK, this  circumstance is different than what we planned for, but we [00:13:30] have the elements of the plan here. Let's put it into place. You know, this pandemic, I think is a perfect example. While certainly there have been all of us look at the idea of what it means, what a pandemic would mean. I certainly didn't have a real sense of what it would mean to be essentially having everybody work from home. I didn't know what social distancing was until three weeks ago. And, you know, we're all finding that out now and how that works. So you can create a plan. But the [00:14:00] events on the ground often change or are different than what you might have envisioned. And you got to be able react. But you do have to start with at least, have a plan. Peter Koch: Yeah. Yeah. You're not going to be able to have everything written down for every circumstance. But again, having that plan, talking about what those circles are and then having a process to develop the communication, I mean, maybe that's a good place to go now is too, OK, so we're in a crisis, whether it be a small crisis or a large crisis or an outside [00:14:30] crisis that's currently affecting the particular business or even family structure that you're in. How do you develop the message? Like, what do you think about when you have to develop a message that you have to deliver to employees or people that you're responsible for and you care for? Like what are some of the things that you got to think about when you start putting together a message? Michael Bourque: Well, one of the things that particularly in this [00:15:00] crisis is putting yourself somewhere as close as you can into the shoes of the person who you're communicating with. What are the things that they need to hear? What are they worried about? What are they concerned about? What don't they know that they wish they did? And it's sort of meeting the people where they are and having that understanding, I think is hugely important. I mean, you know, we all could go on and regurgitate what we hear on the news to share with employees about this is what's happening in this pandemic. And, you know, we have this many [00:15:30] cases in this state and this is the governor all this and this. That's all great. But the truth is the method of communication needs to be human. And so you need to meet the people where they are and be a human being yourself. I think that's hugely important. And that's something that I certainly have tried to do. And as we work through this, because this one in particular is personal in nature, in that people are at home dealing with kids, dealing with elderly parents, that they may be worried about dealing with neighbors, that they're concerned about. If you only come forward, only [00:16:00] to acknowledge that there's a work challenge. Then you're missing a lot and you're not showing the perspective that you need to. You know there are other crises that may really be just about work. Something that's occurring at work. And yet the other thing you have to think about is people are obviously always thinking about what does that mean to them? What if the company fails? Do they have a job? Do they have, you know, what is their future look like? And so I think always putting yourself in the shoes of the person who's [00:16:30] receiving the messages is an important start. Peter Koch: That's a great point. Meeting people where they are and taking some time to think about where they are. So who are your employees? Where do they come from? What are some of the things that they're going to need to know? Again, having a conversation with a policyholder just last week actually about what was happening, and I was on a conference call or a video call with the director and a number of their employees. And [00:17:00] the reason I was on the call was to provide some information about the virus and what to do and how to manage it. And it was really interesting to hear some of the questions that came out that reflected where people were. There was one particular person who worked in the mailroom and her concern was how long does the virus last on any surface? Like, what about the packages that we is it different on cardboard, than it is on a tieback mailer than it is on bubble wrap than it is on something [00:17:30] else, like how do I manage that? And then someone else was talking about the social distancing. If I have to interact with somebody, how far apart do I need to stay? What do I need to do? Do I need to wear a mask? Those pieces. And then there are questions about, well, I have to go home and I'm like, my mother or father is living with me. And how do I manage that? I don't think I've been exposed. But how do I manage that particular [00:18:00] challenge? So understanding where they are and my initial message to them was sort of clinical, like I had a plan, I had a presentation. We're going to go through here. The facts. Just the facts, ma'am. But it really turned into a conversation about. So how do you manage? How do you take these facts and bring them into your own work life? And then recognizing that this might have a potential impact to your home life, too. And then the park [00:18:30] director was pretty awesome about this particular thing. And he had a couple of themes that sort of wandered through. And the first part was, stay calm, like, don't panic. There's some facts around this that we can get our arms around and we can come up with our own plan for not only prevention and protection but keeping going. So meet people where they are and stay calm, sort of understand what that what that message should be. So you put that message together, you've got [00:19:00] it in your head, you're thinking about it. You put it out there and you get some response. You get some response with emotion. So how do you manage? How do you manage that? Because that's real. That's people are going to come back at you with, well, what about me or what about this or here's this emotional response. How do you deal with that as a communicator, especially in crisis situation? Michael Bourque: That is a that's a really great, great question, because it happens. It's exactly what happens that people are emotional. We're emotional individuals, very [00:19:30] emotional beings. And so in our fight or flight response is not far from the surface. And that's just deep seated. That's, you know, that's in our genetic makeup. I think one of the more important things is we have to understand that even if we know exactly what the logic of a circumstance is, if you're met with great emotion, your facts don't matter. They really don't. They can easily be superseded by the emotion of a circumstance. So that's [00:20:00] sort of an example of the meeting people where they are understanding that you have to acknowledge people's fears or concerns or even anger in some cases. Having people understand something like that is the first step in being able to have a deeper conversation and communicate. But if you tried to make the emotion seem as though it doesn't matter, the response back will just be louder, and you won't get to really deliver the message that you are hoping to deliver. So, you know, the place where I heard it described is [00:20:30] in cases where an organization, say a manufacturing facility might be looking to site a new plant and they want to put it in an area where there there's some people who are living and they make some sort of material that people don't know about. But sounds dangerous. It sounds chemical. And you can say, look, you can eat a pound of this stuff every day and you will be fine. You can say that over and over. But the neighbor who has a new interaction plant about to be put next to them, who has a five-year-old and a seven year [00:21:00] old at home, they may not believe it. And, you know, you can't just feed them science and expect them to say, OK, well, all right. Since you told me that, that's fine. I got that. That's not how it works. And I think that's really an example that, you know, that brings it home for me. Peter Koch: Yeah, that's a really great example. And so hard to deal with. So you as the communicator, might be really excited about the message that you're going to present. But the person that's hearing the message is actually hearing it as a crisis like this is a crisis of [00:21:30] I chose this place because of these things and I've got this family life that I'm trying to manage. And all of a sudden, they hear this message of, hey, you're going, you're going to do what you're going to make what near who I've got. I've got kids. And then to recognize their emotion or their reaction to the message is, is really legitimate? Like you said, and it's not personal. And I think sometimes as the person delivering the message hearing that [00:22:00] and it can be delivered in a very personal way, but you need to be able to take it maybe not as personal so that you can acknowledge the legitimacy. Because as you said before, you know communication is just it's a human thing. We have to do it. It's something that we're created to do, to communicate with each other in different ways. And when your communication is being challenged by someone else in a very emotional way,  [00:22:30]you can come across very defensive in that way. So acknowledging that they have fears. And then once you acknowledge that they have fears. How do you help them along with those fears as a communicator in a crisis? So how do you get them maybe not to put the fears aside, but to recognize that something might be done? So what are what do you do with that? Michael Bourque: Yeah. You just made a really great statement [00:23:00] there not to put the fears aside, because if you find yourself convincing people to put fear aside, that's a way of resisting it as opposed to acknowledging it. And I think, you know, really putting yourself there, I think to the degree I mean, in this pandemic, I think we're all in this together. And so maybe it's a little bit easier to acknowledge that there are things we all don't know, concerns that we all have. We all are worried about people. I think to the degree that as a leader, you can share your own humanity [00:23:30] in this kind of a crisis. That's important. And so I think some of that ability to provide some insight into your own sort of humanity as you're making this, I think that does allow you to then pivot to the OK, so we do know this, but here are the things we all have to know. Here are the things we have to do. Here's where we think this is going. You know, it's a matter of trust. You have to have developed some trust with people so that in a time of crisis that they believe what they're hearing from you. We're [00:24:00] talking here about a crisis communication. The truth is, if you haven't communicated or don't communicate normally on some sort of regular basis, you may not have had the opportunity to build the trust that you're going to need in the trust bank when something like this happens. So those are all ways that you are prepared and able to then share the information in ways that it will be heard. And then beyond that, the basics of good communication sort of are important. You got to tell the truth. If you don't know [00:24:30] an answer, you've got to say we don't know where we're working on finding this. We need more information about this. Thinking that blustering your way through something is not a way to go. There are some people who were good at it and have survived, but it's a pretty high wire act and not something I would recommend. But I think those are sort of the fundamentals for how you move forward. Peter Koch: Yeah, those are those are great points. I hadn't really thought about this in this way, like preparing [00:25:00] for this as crisis communication, but then you bring up the point where when you communicate in a crisis, you are cashing in from the trust bank. You are reaching into people's lives and asking them to trust that the message that you're providing is true to the extent that it can be to the extent of your own knowledge, because we're only human. I mean, you think about the information that came out within the current pandemic here two weeks ago. We're living in a different [00:25:30] world or even three weeks ago or four weeks ago. All this is not going to happen. It's not going to change us. It's not going to do anything. We're working in this particular form. And then all of a sudden where we are now, the message has changed, or the situation has changed. So, yeah, realizing that all of our communication, especially as a leader, whether you are a business owner, where you're the president or the CEO or you're a supervisor or you're a parent leading your family, [00:26:00] you are all in a place where that ongoing communication is critical for you to establish trust in a good two way process for communication so that people feel comfortable with asking you the question. So if they're comfortable asking you questions outside of the time of crisis, they're certainly going to be a little more vocal during the time of crisis and will possibly ask better questions at that time. So maybe less emotional questions and maybe [00:26:30] more realistic questions as we come down to it, because it's all pretty, pretty critical as we go forward. Let me take you back to that conversation that I was having last week with that group, one of the parts that the park directors kept talking about again. Just stay calm but remain informed. So one of the messages that he put forth and he asked me to talk a little bit about, too, was while acknowledging that we don't have all the answers, like [00:27:00] you were saying before, Michael, but where to find it? Like, where do you go to find your information? So, you know, today, if we're talking about the pandemic, where do you go to find your information? Well, you want to go to the most reliable source you can, which might not be social media, which might not be the news source that you're looking for, might not be your next-door neighbor. It might need to be the CDC or the W.H.O. to find some current accurate information to be [00:27:30] able to keep yourself informed so that you can check to make sure that the message that your leader is giving you is founded in facts as well. So it helps you trust when the leader can say, hey, this is where I'm at, here's the information I have. Go check it out at these places, because this is where we're working on for our plan with our information. So remain informed was a key theme that sort of worked through. So meeting [00:28:00] people where they are. Michael Bourque: I think that remain informed. I think that is also really important. And on the one hand, if you develop trust, you can be a source for your employees, and you hope that you are. But you're absolutely right about needing to be able to reflect where it comes from, because I'm not an epidemiologist and I should not pretend to be ever. And so whether it's CDC, either in your state or the CDC nationally or it's some state [00:28:30] governments, I think have done a very good job. You know, we happen to be recording this here in Maine. And the director of the state's CDC has gained really great respect. People didn't even know who his name was before this crisis started. And he's proven to be smart and calm and really informative. And I think he's developed his own cult following probably as a result of this. But he's clearly a smart man who thinks about these things and has [00:29:00] thought about. This is not something he's just doing off the cuff. He has a plan. He's thought about it and he knows how to provide the information. And while he's a doctor, he also understands how to reflect. He has the empathy to deal with an individual person who may be a call-in person, somebody calling in on a radio talk show. So, you know, those are those are some we're seeing some good examples, actually, of the kind of communication that is necessary in a crisis like this. Peter Koch: It's a really great example. And [00:29:30] again, going back and looking at when you're preparing your message, where is your information coming from? The person delivering the message should rely on not just themselves, but think about as a team effort, use that executive team or the team of supervisors that might be around you to help understand the facts and then deliver those facts in a way that can be that can be ingested by the people who are listening to you, again meet [00:30:00] the people where they are. Recognize and legitimize the fears that they might have. Provide them with the facts and where to find more information about the particular crisis that we're in. And certainly it's easier if the crisis is going to be longer, but if it's not, even if it's in a short-term crisis, it could be a fire. It could be a power outage or an environmental emergency that's shorter lived than what we're dealing [00:30:30] with right now. It might be harder to find information, but still there's going to need to be a place where people go back, can go back too and find additional information about that. So whether you're the message deliverer, the team that's helping provide the message, or you are the message receiver. Being able to know where those trusted sources are pretty key. What else is there to communicating in a crisis? What other. What are the things are important to keep in mind when you're [00:31:00] communicating to your employees in a crisis? Michael Bourque: One of the others, I think, is frequency. I think you have to develop some kind of a cadence that is certainly much more frequent than you would under normal circumstances. I think particularly within a fast-moving crisis where things are changing, facts are changing all the time, that that's important. An example I remember that actually goes back to here in our home state of Maine. 1998 was a time when we had a terrible ice storm that shut out power for a large percentage of [00:31:30] people statewide in the organization, Central Maine Power, which had both the president and the communications director. Communications guy was a guy named Marcus Kennion, and he was on the radio every single morning explaining where they were, where the workers were. The progress they were making and acknowledging people's challenges every single day. And he became sort of a mini celebrity over that period of time because he had showed empathy in his way of speaking. He [00:32:00] didn't speak like a corporate titan from an energy company. He spoke like your neighbor. And he understood communication is hugely important. Peter Koch: I remember that I wasn't working for MEMIC at the time. I was working for a different company and we were personally out of power. My wife was seven months pregnant at the time. Power's out. Not really sure when it's going on, going to happen, but I remember listening to him every day. And well, as I reflect now, kind of compare [00:32:30] and contrast with some of the things that helped me assuage my fears were that they're out working. We're bringing other people in. There's teams coming from other states. They're in these areas. And again, acknowledging that he gets it. People are out of power. This might be extended. We're working as hard as we can to get it out. You know, his family didn't have power either. There were personal things that allowed me to connect with the message that was important. And [00:33:00] it kind of made me get behind the crews that were out. They were two streets over from where I was live. And we didn't have power. They were working over there, and I was like, cool, they're over there. They're working. They're working hard. They're doing great. And it put a different spin on it rather than being in the dark about it. Pardon the pun about what was going on during that timeframe. Michael Bourque: Yeah, no, I think that was it. And it was held up as an example of really smart response. And it [00:33:30] was it was good for those reasons. They had facts. They were moving in the right direction. And they acknowledged the concerns of individuals and they were human about it. And there was a human scale. So I think that's just really important elements. They're fairly simple when you think about it. And yet it's easy to be overwhelmed by the depth and scale and the change. We've all seen here in the last few weeks. But, you know, it comes down to those sort of fundamentals. Peter Koch: Yeah, absolutely. [00:34:00] Making me think back again at that conversation last week, there were two more points. And you touched on one of them, that human side of every crisis that there is and that the importance to stay connected, to get connected with your fellow employees, to get connected with people, especially like now, when we're not able to have the same connection, like I'm not able to have the same connection with the policyholders that I typically come [00:34:30] to instead of being face to face with them on a regular basis. We're communicating by email and phone a lot, which changes the relationship, but at least there's some connection there with them to get them to know that, hey, I'm still there to help you and they're still there in the event that there's a challenge that they can reach out with me, but, you know, remain connected with your coworkers as well, which is just as important to check in on your community members to make sure that you're [00:35:00] connecting with the other people around you, that that connection of whether it be an audio connection or visual connection is a really important part of our humanity. And to remember that crises challenges our humanity. And we want to, we want to remain essential to those things that make us human. That connecting peace back and forth. An important part. Michael Bourque: We're social animals. You know, even if, you know, some of us may like things quieter and, [00:35:30] you know, we all have to interact. And those are important to us. And so while we can't do it the way we have, I think, you know, one of the beauties of technology is that it is allowing for communication face to face, even when you are miles and miles apart in a fairly easy way. And I think these are things that we're all take manage of and have to continue. And, you know, one of my messages to my senior team recently has been, this is not a time where you can communicate enough. There's [00:36:00] no such thing as over communicating at this time. You really are going to be in touch with people all the time and it's going to be hard because there's a lot to do. Peter Koch: Yeah, that's a really good point. The cadence and frequency of communication and in times of crisis has to be more than in other times. And I think you said it in one of your emails that if you're you know, if your team is not tired at the end of the week, or I could be remembering that from another piece that I remember. But if your team isn't tired [00:36:30] at the end of the week about trying to communicate to their staff, then you might not be doing enough. You might think that your job as a manager on the floor might be really tiring, but trying to manage the communication's piece on a continual basis in times of crisis is even more challenging as a manager or supervisor and you're going to be tired or are going to be mentally exhausted at the end of the day or the end of the week because of the continual messages [00:37:00] that you have to put out and maintaining that consistency of message, recognizing that people are going to hear it. Trying to understand what the response is going to be. And then to be prepared for that inevitable response when it comes back. There's one more side of this. We've been talking a lot about the communications part and making sure that we can all talk to each other or communicate in terms of crisis. And it sort of ties into the cadence of communication. But it's the vigilance [00:37:30] that's important in times of crisis. And I think as a leader, whether, again, supervisor, presidents, CEO, doesn't matter who you are, if you're leading people, it is time to be vigilant, to make sure that the message that you put out is consistent, is delivered in the right way, is put out at the right frequency, and you have the right information. Don't put out a message that's going [00:38:00] to have the same information as you did last week if you haven't conferred or corroborated that that information is still accurate. So you want to make sure that you're not communicating just to communicate, but you're communicating for a purpose. Michael Bourque: Yeah, no, I think that's true. And you talked about vigilance. You know, I think vigilance covers a whole bunch of things at this point. But because we're working in different ways, things like workplace safety, all of those, because we're in new environments, different places, all of us. We may [00:38:30] take our eye off that ball. But it's the time, actually, to tell people that not to be afraid to remind people of those, because as we always talk about, safety is not something you just do a few days a week or even a few times a month when you have a safety meeting. It really is something that happens all the time and much the way communication needs to have the regular sort to be part of your everyday, certainly reminding yourselves that things are different. And that means you sort of have to focus a little more on each task. Each thing you're doing, whether [00:39:00] you're at work or working from home. Michael Bourque: That's great. Really great point that there are things out there that exist in the workplace other than the current virus epidemic that we're having that can still injure you, that can still put you out of work, that can still put you at a disadvantage overall. So remaining vigilant is important in those pieces. And to remind your staff that are, actually give permission to your staff to pay attention to those [00:39:30] hazards and exposures that you have beyond just the hand hygiene and social distancing that we have in place right now. So what do you wish that you had known when you first started out that you know now? Michael Bourque: I do think that some of it is around understanding the humanness of reactions and that understanding that emotion truly does rule us as individuals in so many ways, [00:40:00] and, you know, I was always somebody that would say, well, the logic tells me this, and so therefore this is the answer. And I think really sort of feeling okay about expressing that, that we feel like we don't need to sort of unmask any of ourselves in order to be able to communicate to a larger group. But the truth is that every communication ultimately is a one to one communication. When I send a message out to 500 employees at MEMIC, it's to one [00:40:30] single individual who sees it, reads it, receives it in the way that they think about things within their environment. And that's where the messages and so understanding that. And if I was having a communication with somebody across my back fence with my neighbor, it would be different than if I send an email. In the end, you can't necessarily think of it in that way. You really do have to think about those individual interactions and that just because it's a big announcement doesn't mean that it has to happen in some formal way as though you're standing with a flag behind [00:41:00] you and at a podium. That's not normal communication. That's not necessarily effective communication. Peter Koch: I think where there's so much that we could talk about on the communications side, but we want to talk about some key points on crisis. We did discuss those. We talked about making sure that we're meeting people where they are understanding sort of that tactic of concentric circles of where the message is going to go and who's going to receive it and who should be putting that message out. Acknowledging the emotion that's going [00:41:30] to be there to help people, to stay calm, to get connected, remain informed and then be vigilant are all concepts for communication in the crisis. And this should all role into a plan that as any business you should have or even as a supervisor, you could take a smaller chunk of that. And if there is a crisis like an employee injury within your department, how do you manage that? You can scale it up or scale it down depending [00:42:00] on the circumstances. So I really do appreciate your time here today. We're right about at the end of our podcast time. Is there anything that I should have asked? But I didn't ask so far that you want to you want to touch on? Michael Bourque: No, I think you did a great job, Peter. And I think I read the summary you just gave I think is really useful information. I hope people took notes when they heard you go through that list, because I think that really is the essence of what we're talking about. And I think there's a lot of great stuff. If [00:42:30] I had that list 20 years ago, life would be easier. So I'm going to write it down after I get off the phone. Peter Koch: Right on. I'm going to write that down, too. I really because a lot of that list came for what you were talking about. So I've learned a lot in this conversation today. And again, I really appreciate you taking the time to join us and talk about crisis communication today. Michael Bourque: You're welcome, Peter. Nice to be with you. And be well, thanks. Peter Koch: I appreciate that. And to all of our listeners out there, I thank you again. Today, we've been speaking about communicating with employees at times of crisis with Michael Bourque, president [00:43:00] and CEO at MEMIC at the MEMIC's Safety Experts podcast. If you have any questions for Mike or like to hear more about our particular topic on our podcast. Email me at [email protected]. Also, check out our show notes at MEMIC.com/podcast, where you can find links to a new safety blog about communications as well as our entire podcast archive. And while you're there, sign up for the safety net blog so you never miss any of our articles or safety news updates. [00:43:30] And if you haven't done so already, I'd appreciate it if you take it a minute or two to review us on Stitcher I-Tunes or whichever podcast service that you find us on. If you've already done that, well, thank you, because it really helps us spread the word. Please consider sharing the show with a business associate friend or family member who you think will get something out of it. And as always, thank you for the continued support. And until next time, this is Peter Koch reminding you that listening to the MEMIC Safety Experts Podcast [00:44:00] is good, but using what you learned is even better.