Topic Talk | The Jack & "Chill Podcast Episode 06

In this episode of The Jack & "Chill Podcast, the two hosts discuss the difficulty of growing an audience for a podcast, a vlog, or a You Tube channel.Transcript:00:00:00XochitlYou are listening to the Jack and Chill podcast.00:00:14JackAll right. So so. So tell me about your, uh, your travel page, your social media.00:00:20JackTravel page.00:00:21XochitlLike the struggle is so real with trying to grow social media and you know you and I have experienced this before because we're trying to grow A-Z English podcast. And the complication is really cut to grow, especially for like niches like.00:00:37XochitlLike language, learning, podcasts, or travel pages or whatever, because there's a lot of quality content and bizarre content and like attention grabbing content that's competing with your content and everyone's attention span has become so short. Because I'm guilty of this too. Like, I'll see a real or like a video or a post.00:00:59XochitlOn my Instagram and I'll like it, but I won't finish watching it. I'll just, like, give it a like or save it.00:01:04XochitlFor later, which I never go back to and.00:01:07XochitlAnd just keep.00:01:08XochitlLike I won't sit there and watch.00:01:09XochitlA 5 second video.00:01:12XochitlFor three seconds and and that's how they measure it. To promote your videos. How many people? How many? 3 second views did you get? At least in Instagram and Facebook?00:01:23XochitlThat's how they promote your content is based on the amount of three second views you're getting, because if you're able to capture some of the attention for three seconds, that means that your real is classified as interesting enough to keep showing it to more people. That's the metric. Now is 3 seconds of your time.00:01:40JackGoodness, that's good.00:01:41JackGrief. I know exactly you're talking about. It's like.00:01:47JackIt it almost takes like you almost have to be delusional, like crazy to to even think that that you can be successful in this space. You know what I mean? It's it. It takes. Yeah. It takes like a level of like self delusion where you just kind of trick yourself into thinking you're going to be successful.00:02:07JackBecause it's so saturated with like.00:02:12JackLike you said, quality.00:02:13JackContent and bad quality content you know like.00:02:17JackIt's it's a.00:02:17JackMix of everything and when you jump in there, you're just like your one tiny little star in the Galaxy. Like there's no there's, you know, and then you just from there, you have to just start building.00:02:33JackSome sort of fan base, you know, and the only way to do that is by participating in social media, because if you go into these groups and you just spam.00:02:45JackThem you'll be. That's worse than not promoting your podcast at all, you know, like, yeah, I'll get banned right from the group right away. And everyone will look at me like, oh, that person is just a they're just a spammer, you know? So what you have to do is you have to get involved in these groups and you have to become like a member.00:02:51XochitlWait, you're good, ban.00:03:06JackAnd that it takes a lot of time right? To like answer, reply to emails, reply to social media posts and Facebook posts and stuff like that. And then after you do that for.00:03:18JackLike a month. If somebody asks you like, hey, by the way, do you know a good podcast to to learn English? And then you could say ohh yeah, I know a good podcast. It's called the A-Z English podcast and you could then finally drop it, but you have to.00:03:33JackDo it in that.00:03:33JackVery subtle kind of way, but all that work and all those hours of like.00:03:39JackTime I spent, you know, chatting with with people in the groups just to become a member and accept it into the group so that I could, you know, and it's it's really like that's the stuff that's the hard part making the podcast is easy. You.00:03:54JackKnow you just.00:03:56JackGet together and record an episode. It's fun. Editing is great. Adding the music and that sort of stuff. It seems like that would be the hard part, but that is the absolute easiest part of the process. The hardest part is.00:04:11JackBuilding a community.00:04:12JackSo I like how did you.00:04:14JackBuild your community in in your.00:04:16JackFor your Facebook Travel travel blog.00:04:19XochitlI just see like I haven't really.00:04:22XochitlDone any of the stuff you've done, like go in local chats or anything like that, or post about it. I think honestly, I think one of the things where we fell short both in the 8 is the English.00:04:32XochitlPodcast you do a.00:04:33XochitlLot of work yourself like marketing.00:04:35XochitlThe page but I.00:04:36XochitlJust think we're not shameless enough, Jack. Like, we don't have that totally shameless promotional attitude.00:04:41XochitlThat a lot of people.00:04:43XochitlA lot of social media influencers have.00:04:45XochitlLike, we're kind of we're not.00:04:47XochitlShy about our work per se.00:04:49XochitlBut we definitely have like.00:04:51XochitlA certain level of decorum that just does not exist in this new level of competitive marketing age.00:04:58XochitlLike people do, disband the chats and hope that someone clicks on their content and hopes that someone notices their content and they have no decorum about it.00:05:08JackNo shame, no humility. You're just like.00:05:12XochitlYeah, they don't care.00:05:13XochitlHow they come off at all, they just want the.00:05:15XochitlClicks want the views.00:05:16XochitlAnd they kind of follow that old saying like.00:05:20XochitlWhat is it? No, there's no such thing.00:05:23XochitlAs bad publicity.00:05:24JackRight.00:05:25XochitlA lot of people really live both of words and and I struggle. Yeah. And so for me, I I have been sharing my, you know, my Facebook page. I did share it on one chat. I'm part of a group called. So I guess I lied. I do do it a little bit. I'm part of a group called Viajeros and.00:05:43XochitlAKA which is like a travel group for Oaxaca.00:05:48XochitlAnd I was part.00:05:49XochitlOf this community for a long time and.00:05:51XochitlOne day.00:05:52XochitlThe administrator gave people a chance to share their social media, so that was one way that I got a few of these on my Instagram, on my Facebook and another way is through my networking opportunities like I've worked in the tourism industry. So of course when we exchange social media information.00:06:09XochitlI have gotten some followers through there.00:06:13XochitlAnd then I do share like with my Facebook friends.00:06:19XochitlI've started to because I.00:06:23XochitlUsed to not. It's like I used to feel embarrassed about sharing my content to my Facebook friends. But.00:06:28XochitlNow it's like that's a big.00:06:31XochitlChunk of people that could watch and share and support your content, you know, and I do notice that the people who are the most shameless or have the least shame.00:06:42JackYou're the most to have the most success, right?00:06:45XochitlHaving a success. There's another guy on the viejitos group and.00:06:48XochitlHe just he.00:06:49XochitlUsed to spam basically spam the chat and.00:06:52XochitlHe would like literally.00:06:55XochitlInformation hostage of people. They ask a general question, and if you need to answer, you said I'll tell you the answer if.00:06:59XochitlYou can prove.00:07:00XochitlThat you're following my Facebook page.00:07:02JackYeah. You sent me your.00:07:04JackE-mail. Yeah, yeah, yeah.00:07:05XochitlWell, you like send me a screen capture the fact that it's on his page and and I think he gained like $10,000 this year alone, but he was famous about it, but he really did. I would never do something like that. I'd never be like I'm not giving you information unless you send me a screenshot of you.00:07:13JackYeah, yeah.00:07:24XochitlFollowing my Facebook page like it just seems like so like for us we would say like in poor.00:07:30XochitlTaste, you know.00:07:32JackYeah, no, you and.00:07:33JackI would never do that. We would never hold anyone or any information hostage if someone, if one of our listeners came to us, you know, because we're just like.00:07:42JackI mean, I don't think we do. We don't do this for the fame or or the the fortune or whatever. I think we just do it because we enjoy the process and you know that's that's not. But I I would love to to see the the podcast grow to.00:08:00JackThe level of like those other major English language learning podcasts like I I wanted, I want to achieve that. I just want to do it in like an honest way.00:08:11JackWhere and I.00:08:12JackAnd I'm not saying that those those.00:08:13JackPodcasts weren't, you know, honest and.00:08:18JackI I guess what I'm saying is like they I think they were there early. They were early adapters. They kind of figured it out early. They saw something where we're late adapters. You know we we're jumping in into the lake when it's already full of of people you know, it's just like there's not, there's nothing special.00:08:24XochitlRight.00:08:38JackYou know, we're trying to.00:08:39JackDifferentiate ourselves because I like to think of the A-Z as.00:08:43JackLike the we're kind of.00:08:44JackThe red headed stepchild of the.00:08:47JackLanguage learning base because we do things.00:08:50JackA little bit different. You know, it's like it's not as clean and refined and and like.00:08:55XochitlWe're not as organized. I think we.00:08:57XochitlHave a lot of heart though.00:08:58XochitlLike our community is.00:08:59XochitlSincere we actually care a lot.00:09:01XochitlWhat our listeners, we know our listeners like on our personal level, those that are in the sub groups or the WeChat groups and Jack, you put a lot of effort into interacting with people. I was having so many issues with WhatsApp so.00:09:13XochitlI haven't been.00:09:14XochitlAble to be as active as I.00:09:15XochitlUsed to be and want to.00:09:16XochitlBe on chat but.00:09:19JackI'm I'm very close with a lot of our listeners in, in the WhatsApp group for sure and they they take some of our classes, our world English online, Google meets classes that we teach. So you know our our I know a lot of the listeners that listen to our podcast, some of them have that have been on our show.00:09:39JackYou know they've they've come on in.00:09:40JackGuests but uh. But when you're talking about like podcasting, we're we have to scale it up to you want thousands and thousands of of listeners a day, you know, thousands of thousands of people listening each day. And you know, we're we're in the hundreds of people.00:10:01JackWhich is still I.00:10:02JackMean that's a lot of people. Imagine A room.00:10:03JackFull of 100 and 5200.00:10:05JackPeople, and they're all there for you, you know, like that would be amazing, you know.00:10:06XochitlYeah, it's, it's.00:10:12XochitlYeah, it's not like we're professors. I mean, you're a professor at a university, right? It's kind of.00:10:16XochitlLike that? Like being a Professor university and your class is successful and you have like 450 people. Your class is easy. A known as an easy Angel.00:10:16JackYeah, yeah.00:10:26JackWell, I would never, I don't think.00:10:27JackI could ever get a class full of 150 people at my own university, but yeah, I mean, just standing. You know, if I were in a room with with 300 people and they were all there to listen to me.00:10:38JackTo you and me, talk, I I would be like, you know, honored it would be it'd be intimidating, you know? So it's not. It's not like we're, you know, it's not like.00:10:50JackWe're we're not a.00:10:50JackFailing podcast. We're just I think we're stuck in like a kind of middle zone where I feel like we're ready to break through.00:10:58JackWe just need some kind of push or some kind of.00:11:04JackIt's it's always, I guess what you always have to do is kind of keep tweaking and you keep adjusting until you find the right frequency and then you and and you can resonate with with an audience and and break through the noise I guess is what you.00:11:21발표자I think.00:11:23XochitlWe are a little unorganized because we've kind of.00:11:25XochitlBeen seeing what?00:11:26XochitlSticks like it's a process. When you start up a podcast or social media page, you publish a lot of different types of content, and then you see what performs the best and you kind of try to repeat that formula in a structured way to ensure your success, you know.00:11:45JackWell, I'm. I'm good friends with uh with Robin Shaw Shaw English online.00:11:49JackAnd he, you know, the.00:11:51JackAdvice he always gives me is testing. He's always testing, testing new. You know, sticking with the stuff that works and then testing something new and and because you never know when you might just hit something.00:12:04JackThat's absolutely.00:12:07JackJust resonates with people on such a intense level, and that's that's what I think we're always doing is, you know, couple episodes a week are are kind of in our wheelhouse, they're comfortable. And then a couple episodes are kind of outside the box. And so, yeah, even after we, we've been doing this podcast.00:12:27JackFor you and I have been doing it for about a year, Kevin and I did it for about 6 months, so together the podcast has been around for a year and a half. That's relatively young for a podcast.00:12:39JackI mean, it doesn't.00:12:41JackI I think I don't think we're.00:12:44JackI think the.00:12:44JackSuccess that we've had with this podcast is is above average for a a podcast our age. That's my my my thinking I could be wrong. You know, obviously like famous people. You know, people that are celebrities and they start a podcast. It's it starts off you're already.00:13:02JackOn a different level.00:13:05JackYou know, but they're that's cause they're they're leveraging their fame that they had and bringing it into the podcast space. When you're 2 unknown people like us. And we're just starting from the ground up and building something. What we've accomplished is actually quite admirable. I think like it's really it's something special.00:13:25JackAnd to be able to, you know, keep growing that in a space that's already saturated with a lot of a lot of people trying to do the exact same thing that we're trying to do.00:13:38JackThat's why I tried. That's why I'm I'm trying to.00:13:41JackLike I always say, this expression is zig when everyone else sags. You know, like that's the that's kind of the.00:13:48JackThe theory behind this.00:13:49JackPodcast is like.00:13:50JackIf everybody's going to be doing this.00:13:51JackKind of one way style. Why don't we?00:13:55JackDo it a different way.00:13:56JackYou know, so that's why we kind of more free free form conversations that weren't highly edited and we kind of speak at a normal speed and we we challenge our listeners to, you know, hold on for the roller coaster ride that is our conversation.00:13:57XochitlRight.00:14:14JackAnd that's.00:14:15XochitlYou know, because if they can, sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off, Jack. I just. If they can do so, you know that they're really applying their skills on a new level. That it when they come to the US or when they use their English language skills or when they use their speaking skills or their listening skills. You know that they are going to be.00:14:18JackNo, no, no, go.00:14:18발표자Ahead, go ahead.00:14:34XochitlAble to hold their own.00:14:35XochitlIn a real life.00:14:38JackYes, I I think that's really important. I don't do, I don't really do teacher talk even even in my classroom. I just don't believe in it. I think my students are better served listening to me speak at the rate that the normal rate that I that I normally speak at and and be prepared for what they're actually going to encounter.00:14:59JackIn the United States or Canada or England, then opposed to some kind of like you know.00:15:06JackBaby talk that I use in the classroom so that everybody can understand.00:15:12JackBut when you get into the real world, no one's gonna do that. You know, baby talk thing for you that's sheltered, you know, talk. They're gonna speak at a normal speed, and you're gonna have to to be prepared.00:15:24JackFor that, so I I don't.00:15:26JackKnow I that's.00:15:27JackThat's always been my theory, my philosophy.00:15:33JackWe try to.00:15:33JackSlow things down a little bit. The problem with you and me is that we we're fast talkers, you know? And so, you know, it's probably some people might tune into our podcast and go.00:15:48JackWow, they they talk so fast, I can't even, you know, this is way beyond my my level. So you know, that's something that we, you and I could probably work on is like trying to slow down a little bit. But like I said, I don't really believe in that. I kind of believe in, you know.00:16:04JackLearning the way it really is, the reality is, is always going to be more, more beneficial than some sort of sheltered, you know, English that we can give to them and and make them feel good in the moment. But then when they when they're faced with the real.00:16:24JackSpeaking situations real authentic language learning like English speaking experiences, they're gonna have, they're gonna struggle.00:16:33JackSo I that's just my my my feeling, but maybe we're off off topic now a little bit, I don't know.00:16:40XochitlA little, but it's OK, you know, I think I think it all ties into the whole.00:16:45XochitlYou know social media aspect and then another another last question I have for you about you know growing your social media personally I found in my journey with social media that content it's like.00:17:01XochitlUh, there's a couple of reasons I feel like we're starting a page. It's not necessarily about, as you said, it's like the delusion of success and whatnot. But for me and for you.00:17:10XochitlI believe as.00:17:11XochitlWell, more than.00:17:13XochitlCaring about success, I think it's like we.00:17:16XochitlWe enjoy what we're doing and success to us means that people are also enjoying and responding to what we're doing and so it's nice to feel that like recognition and one thing I have noticed is that sometimes content that I never thought.00:17:36XochitlWould perform so well.00:17:39XochitlIt like it does really well. And then content that I really didn't try that hard on or that.00:17:46XochitlYou know, that does really well. And then content that I really put my whole heart into or that I thought would perform amazingly, it kind of fell short and UM.00:17:57XochitlThe social media.00:17:58JackSpace is completely upside down from what I learned as a communications major as an undergrad, like when when I was young. If you make something good, people will find.00:18:09JackNeed it. You know what I mean? Like, if it's good people. Now, if you make something good. But it has a bad thumbnail, they'll never find it.00:18:13발표자Right.00:18:19JackLike but if you have a good thumbnail, a great thumbnail and mediocre content.00:18:19XochitlThe way.00:18:27JackThat that'll perform better than, uh. So, right. So like you said that 3 second thing is really important. It's like if you can't grab, if you can't grab the audience's attention in three seconds and.00:18:42JackI don't know. Maybe you know, I'm thinking like.00:18:45JackHow does that translate to the podcasting space? Because I'm talking about the YouTube space and Facebook space where.00:18:50JackYou are with your.00:18:52JackYour travel blog your your travel page because it's all about like a good a good thumbnail grabbing the attention.00:19:00JackAnd then people will watch your content and the content does. I've seen such like, mediocre kind of just boring.00:19:08JackSent get huge numbers.00:19:13JackAnd I'm just totally baffled by it. Like.00:19:16JackI'm I don't.00:19:16JackUnderstand it. Why is that video so amazing performing so well and a lot of times it's like YouTube will promote things.00:19:28JackInternally, like, they'll test things and stuff, so your YouTube might grab your video and show it to 100,000 people.00:19:37XochitlRight.00:19:37JackAnd just to see how it performs.00:19:40JackJust a test.00:19:41JackIt's just part of an algorithm and.00:19:46JackAnd so it's nothing to do with you, it's just YouTube kind of randomly choosing stuff. And I think Facebook probably does the same thing right? It'll it'll. It'll test it and take your your stuff and show it to 100,000 people. And then if it doesn't perform well, then they'll they'll throw you away for a while.00:20:05JackWell, and then you go to the back of the line. It's like you had your chance. Your, your, your. Yeah, you blew it because your your content didn't meet the standard that people want. So now you go back in line and you start over again, you know, in the podcasting space is a little bit different because there is no like thumbnail.00:20:27JackYou know, we just have our logo and that's what so people if that don't know, our podcasts are just scrolling through. And I think we have a good logo. I think the logo is nice.00:20:38JackI think maybe in something I could try and I'm just thinking out loud is not do any sort of opening music, just jump right into the conversation.00:20:51발표자Right.00:20:52JackUM.00:20:54발표자So I might I.00:20:54JackMight try that this week, you know, and just and just bring have closing.00:20:59발표자I think.00:20:59JackBut we don't.00:21:00JackNeed the introduction to the podcast? We can just get right into the conversation immediately so that people don't have to wait, you know 15 seconds because like you said, 3 seconds is is is all you need for a real well 15 seconds is a lifetime, you know.00:21:18XochitlYeah, I think.00:21:19JackIn this modern.00:21:21XochitlJack, I think what you were taught as a communications major and even what I was taught as an English major, even though I just recently went through college, a lot of things that were taught and that are professors believe are outdated. And I think it's because of this. We were taught that there's like an introduction, you know, like a.00:21:40XochitlA hook IMAX and an ending and now?00:21:43XochitlAll you have is your.00:21:44XochitlHook. That's pretty much it.00:21:47XochitlIt's like there's so much competition now that all you have going for you is your hook. If your content isn't like hook after hook after hook, you're flatlined. It's just not going the way that it needs to be.00:22:01JackI do, yeah.00:22:04XochitlAnd I think also with content like it's no longer what's good or what's quality content and what's bad and what's poor quality content, it's all about what's attention grabbing like. If you see a thumbnail of a girl.00:22:18XochitlEating the raw octopus from Korea like you're going to get like a million clicks on that versus you might have a really great video of someone, a guy or girl talking about like oh, this sashimi is really delicious and they might actually go into detail and crack the whole quality content about it.00:22:38XochitlBut because it's not like attention grabbing, it's not like what the heck are that? Is that person eating what's going on? Like, what does that taste like? The curiosity and the tension grabbing aspect of it is like pretty much all we have, like, shock value is a huge social media now.00:22:55JackLike 3.00:22:56JackThree teenagers or young 20s people who are attractive laughing and giggling while trying to eat octopus versus like a a chef who's in his 40s. But he's like a works at like A2 Michelin star restaurant.00:23:16JackYou know or whatever.00:23:17JackExplaining the delicacy of that of of eating it, you know, one is like.00:23:25JackOne is what the first version of that is like, fast food. You know what I mean? Like entertainment. It's just like McDonald's. The second one video is, like, actually has information and knowledge and perspective. And that's like a like a nutritious meal. But where does everybody go? You know, everyone gravitates towards the like.00:23:45JackJunk food, you know, just give me.00:23:47XochitlRight.00:23:49XochitlYeah, because at the end, sorry.00:23:51XochitlJack, I didn't cut you off there.00:23:52XochitlBut at the end.00:23:53XochitlAll about your audience, and I feel like audience for high quality, high production content like maybe the chef at the Michelin restaurant. That's for like an older generation and the people who are scrolling Facebook wheels, Instagram wheels, I know a lot of people say only old people.00:24:09XochitlFacebook. But that's not true. I would never young and I use it. People who are on there scrolling those pages are mostly young people, and they're gonna watch the weird stuff, the shock value, stuff, the funny fun content they want.00:24:27XochitlThat easy to digest, short, entertaining content above anything else, and they prioritize shock value and they prioritize. Find their content and something that gives them a laugh or something that weirds them out. And that's kind of the formula that you have to follow when you want to hook people these days. And you know talking.00:24:47XochitlThis is just like made me think so much about how I run my page because I kind of run it as a soothing or an informational content page. And I think if I want to pick up popularities here, I need to focus a lot.00:24:58XochitlOn like shock.00:25:03XochitlLike shock, all you find the interesting stuff.00:25:06JackYeah, yeah, yeah, you.00:25:07JackIt's it's all about that first.00:25:09JackIf if you can, I don't know.00:25:11JackDo you make?00:25:11JackThumbnails and stuff like that for your videos or.00:25:15XochitlI do. I usually use like.00:25:17XochitlIf I'm doing one on.00:25:20XochitlLike I did one recently yesterday, like the best news I saw in 2023 and so my thumbnail was just a nice view. And yes, it's pretty and stuff, but I think that kind of suiting content doesn't perform as well as something where a person can't tell what they're looking at and they're so intrigued they want to click on the video.00:25:40JackI'm. I'm not. I'm not like a I'm not good at at making thumbnails, but you know better than I used to be. But yeah, I would. I would do.00:25:48JackLike take a.00:25:49JackLittle thumbnail tutorial on YouTube and then start thumb making thumbnails for your videos and see if that doesn't like.00:25:58JackYou know if.00:25:59JackYou if you get some of those like.00:26:01JackSome of those.00:26:02JackKind of thumbnails where you're like, you know.00:26:04JackI don't know. Making a facial.00:26:06JackExpression of surprise or whatever, you know like.00:26:08JackOh, and then you know, some background.00:26:11JackOr you know what, I.00:26:12JackMean like something where people?00:26:13JackAre just like they they.00:26:14JackHave to click on it because they want to know like what's what is. What's this about, you know? Yeah.00:26:19XochitlHi this is about.00:26:21XochitlAnd the last thing that I think would really up our content for both the ABC English podcasts and my.00:26:30XochitlIs putting our faces out there more? I think this year we do have the goal once my Internet teacher improves of having our faces on the podcast and posting it on YouTube and.00:26:41XochitlFor me like.00:26:42XochitlIncluding my face more in my travel content because I've noticed that it doesn't really matter. I'm not saying that.00:26:48XochitlYou or I aren't attractive, but it doesn't really matter necessarily how attractive a person is. I've seen plenty of like 40 year old, much bunkers and stuff like and travel bloggers. He's still really successful, but it's like people want to connect with that.00:26:57발표자OK.00:27:03XochitlPersonal well, like on a personal level. And when you see a bunch of pretty scenes or a bunch of pictures of food, but you don't really see anyone eating it. Like there's so many successful videos of just like a person eating food and what, like, it's just weird to me. It was like, oh, I took all these, like, nice shots.00:27:06JackYeah, yeah.00:27:23XochitlOf the food. But there's no pictures of me eating it. And it's like my content didn't perform that well and there's these ones and this girl, just like eating crap and like they performed really well. But it's like, I think people just develop a parent social relationship, which for our listeners who.00:27:38XochitlYou don't understand what that means. It's like when you feel that the person on the screen is your friend, basically, and in this information age like I think.00:27:50XochitlThat's kind of an important aspect. They don't want to.00:27:53XochitlSound weird about that? Like.00:27:54XochitlI don't think it's necessarily always a negative thing.00:27:57JackNo, no, I.00:27:57XochitlIt can be really.00:27:59JackThe parasocial that I'm glad you brought that up.00:28:02JackBecause that's that's huge.00:28:04JackThat is like that. You are the in on the A-Z English podcast. If we do a YouTube channel and just do our podcast but we record video and I upload it there, the the viewer is now the third person in the room. You know what I mean? Like you you're you're sitting, you're sitting in that third. There's like a third empty.00:28:25JackShare and and we call it. Sometimes we sometimes we.00:28:27JackCall it the 4th.00:28:28JackWall and you know, you know I'm talking about like, you know, you know and.00:28:31XochitlYeah, yeah.00:28:34XochitlOh yeah.00:28:35JackBreaking the 4th wall would be like we're talking to you as as like the the.00:28:39JackThe third person in the.00:28:41JackAnd I had. I had this huge pair of social relationship with this, with this podcast where the IT was a politics podcast, right?00:28:53JackAnd it really.00:28:54JackShaped my politics, this one broadcaster this that got one of the podcasters. The guy on the podcast was named. His name was.00:29:01JackMichael brooks.00:29:02JackAnd and his his insight and intelligence on the political landscape and everything informed me for years. Like I would just and he and he was also wickedly funny. So it was like this really enjoyable experience where I was learning tons about American politics and foreign foreign affairs.00:29:23JackAnd then also laughing hysterically. Well, suddenly he died one day. He's 37 years old. Aneurysm's gone.00:29:34JackHit hit me like a shovel. Like I swear to you, I have never. I didn't realize that I had a parasocial relationship with this person because it it hurt like a friend dying for three days. You know, it was. It was just like a like a gut punch.00:29:54JackYou know, I I cried like you know what?00:29:57JackI mean like and.00:29:58JackAnd I realized like this is weird. I'm crying over the death of a person that doesn't even know I'm exist. That doesn't.00:30:05JackEven know I'm alive?00:30:07발표자Right.00:30:07JackYet he was so open and so honest, and so intelligent, and it's such a good broadcaster or podcaster that he made me feel like we were friends. Like, that's a that's a special talent. You know, people that can do that. And so that parasocial relationship especially.00:30:26JackIn a time where we're so atomized and so like fragmented as like a, you know, as a, as a culture, as a society, right?00:30:33XochitlAnxiety jam.00:30:36JackAnd that people are looking for that. And so I think you're right, if you're, if you start swimming towards those waters, you're going to have more success. You know what I mean? Like and. And. And I I don't think it's like I don't think it necessarily is.00:30:52JackA bad thing?00:30:53JackI don't what?00:30:53JackDo you think do you?00:30:54JackThink a parasocial.00:30:55JackRelationship is, I mean I I don't think like.00:30:58JackThat should be the number one objective of your channel of your, of your, of your.00:31:03JackAge. But like if it happens if people just feel like they become your friend, I think that's OK.00:31:04XochitlRight.00:31:11JackI guess it's.00:31:12JackJust up to what you're you know what you're willing to to what you're comfortable with. You know what I mean? Like.00:31:18XochitlYeah, I think that a parasocial relationship gets a bad rap, but I don't think it's a bad thing. I think that where society is so fragmented and there's still a lot of isolation and effects from the pandemic that it can help you feel less lonely. I remember during the pandemic I was a huge fan of Emma.00:31:32JackRight.00:31:38XochitlChamberlain and she's a YouTuber. Famous YouTuber who?00:31:43XochitlBreaks the 4th wall really often and makes you feel like you're there with her wherever she goes, like you're hanging out with her or you're going on this adventure with her, or you're just cooking with her in her kitchen and it's just like people, creators who are successful.00:32:00XochitlAnd connecting with their audience on that level and helping people feel less lonely and helping people feel more connected to them as creators and as people are usually the ones who are really successful.00:32:15XochitlAnd I think it's a big aspect of why.00:32:21XochitlWhen TV was invented, radio died out as well. It's like being able to see someone and.00:32:25JackRight.00:32:30XochitlThe amount of love that people could feel for a television star or celebrity because you're seeing that person and you're following their career talk shows. For example. I mean, podcasts have existed since invention of television, and they were talk shows before, basically, and they were, well, really successful because people were sitting at their homes and they felt validated in their opinions.00:32:51XochitlOr they thought they were learning something.00:32:52XochitlAny shows or they're just being entertained and having a good time. And I think that that level of human connection is what we seek and we use technology for that purpose moving forward through social media. And I think that's what makes certain social media pages so successful.00:33:09JackYeah, I Robin Shaw of Shaw English online is he's kind of been my North star when it comes to.00:33:16JackLike social media and stuff like that, I respect his opinions a lot and he said to to me for for you and I and for you and me or for you and I to have success in in the space we need to get our our YouTube channel up with video because right now like a lot of the the.00:33:36JackBecause that would put us ahead of the curve.00:33:38JackLittle bit.00:33:39JackAnd I'll tell you why.00:33:41JackSo we jumped into the audio space, which is like you said is.00:33:44JackIs like going back to old timey radio, you know.00:33:47JackWell, the only difference is you can just listen to whenever you want, but that's what a podcast is. It's a radio show. I mean, the talk to talk about like, you know, the antiquated like, you know.00:33:59JackOld you know.00:34:01JackYeah. So we hopped into space and we did we.00:34:04JackDid all right, you know?00:34:06JackIn order to.00:34:07JackTake it to the next level and a.00:34:09JackLot of these.00:34:09JackPodcasts don't do this is start recording your podcast with video.00:34:15JackPutting it on YouTube and then giving people the opportunity to either watch it on YouTube or listen to it, and now you now you've got two different mediums that you're, you know, so we so.00:34:29JackWe've we've made, we've taken.00:34:30JackSome steps right, we've got our.00:34:31JackLighting issues a little.00:34:32JackBit better what we once we get the.00:34:35JackWi-Fi situation sorted out. We'll we'll be able to kind of make it look like.00:34:40JackA A proper.00:34:42JackStudio, you know.00:34:43JackWhere we're even though we're recording in different country.00:34:46JackAnd I think in that case, at that point you and I will have stepped up. Uh, we'll we'll made a step forward like a step up or whatever. We, we'll we'll have taken a big step up because, you know, we'll we'll now be the podcast that you can watch like a show or.00:35:06JackTo like a radio show. So I think that'll really help us.00:35:11JackI'm I'm not.00:35:12JackSure. I don't know if you think if you agree or not, but.00:35:15XochitlYeah, I definitely agree. And I'm I'm with it and I think we should make it a New Year's resolution for the podcast this year.00:35:24JackRight, yes, this is our 20.00:35:25XochitlYeah. So the 24 solution for the A-Z English podcast and the Jack and Jill Sub podcast, yeah.00:35:26Jack24 New Year's resolution is.00:35:38JackYeah, we've already got a YouTube channel. You know what I mean? So we've got YouTube channel. We're already uploading everything there, but you, you go to the YouTube channel, you can only listen to it. Imagine if you could just go there, see our faces, be that third person in the room and feel like you're you're hanging out with a couple of friends learning English that.00:35:58JackI mean that that would would.00:35:59JackHave a lot of appeal, I think.00:36:01JackAnd so that's.00:36:03JackThat's where I that's where we want to take.00:36:05JackThis so yeah, yeah.00:36:08XochitlListeners let us know what are your suggestions for 2024 to grow our social media page and our podcast. Follow us at A-Z [email protected]. Oh, sorry. Leave us a comment down below at AZ with podcast.com. Follow us on our WhatsApp group on our WeChat group and e-mail us at A-Z.00:36:[email protected] and if you feel so inclined to follow my travel blog on Facebook.00:36:36XochitlOr on Instagram on both of those places, it's so Lenny travels, which is a mixture of my two names, Emily and social XOCLEMI.00:36:48XochitlTravels, TRAVELS, and that's on Facebook and Instagram and we will see you guys next time. Bye bye.00:36:57JackBye bye.00:37:09발표자OK.Podcast Website:https://atozenglishpodcast.com/topic-talk-the-jack-chill-podcast-episode-06/Social Media:Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/671098974684413/Tik Tok:@atozenglish1Instagram:@atozenglish22Twitter:@atozenglish22A to Z Facebook Page:https://www.facebook.com/theatozenglishpodcastCheck out our You Tube Channel:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCds7JR-5dbarBfas4Ve4h8ADonate to the show: https://app.redcircle.com/shows/9472af5c-8580-45e1-b0dd-ff211db08a90/donationsRobin and Jack started a new You Tube channel called English Word Master. 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