The Right Kind of Wrong with Dr Amy Edmondson

Welcome to the Connected Leadership podcast, hosted by Andy Lopata. Our first guest for 2024 is Dr Amy Edmondson, a professor of leadership at Harvard Business School and author of seven books. Renowned for her expertise in psychological safety, Dr Edmondson explores this crucial topic in her latest award-winning book, "The Right Kind of Wrong: The Science of Failing Well." Winner of the prestigious Financial Times and Schroeder's Business Book of the Year award for 2023, her work is recognised globally. Andy and Amy examine the intricacies of failure, learning, and innovation within organizations. Dr. Edmondson shares her insights on the importance of creating a culture that encourages learning from failure, distinguishing between good and bad failure, and the concept of "intelligent failure." They discuss the challenges of balancing short-term results with long-term investments, especially in corporate environments driven by quarterly financial goals. Surprisingly, Amy’s research reveals that teams with strong relationships tend to report more errors than those with weaker ties. This leads to a thought-provoking discussion on the role of relationships, cognitive diversity, and psychological safety in fostering a culture of learning and innovation. The conversation delves into the dynamics of individual and organisational learning, the impact of a growth mindset, and the need for leaders to navigate the tension between immediate results and long-term investments. Dr Edmondson's extensive research and thoughtful insights provide valuable perspectives on building resilient and innovative organisations in an ever-changing landscape. Andy and Amy discuss the crucial aspect of psychological safety within organisational culture. Beginning with addressing the common concern of trusting colleagues and the fear of office politics, where individuals may present themselves as trustworthy but fail to prove it over time. Amy advocates a proactive approach, emphasising disclosure over systematic holding back. She asserts that the occasional harm from trusting an untrustworthy person is less costly than the lost opportunities resulting from systematic caution. This perspective challenges the conventional wisdom of waiting and seeing, encouraging a culture of openness and honesty. The conversation then shifts to the organisational side of psychological safety. Amy contends that a well-run organisation is one that doesn't tolerate infighting or backbiting. She stresses the importance of senior leaders modelling the desired culture and sending a clear message that undermining colleagues will not be tolerated. Andy Lopata explores the journey of establishing trust within a team and maintaining it as the team evolves. Amy emphasises the need for a joint effort, framing the creation of a trusting culture as a shared project. She believes that a culture of trust will naturally reject individuals attempting to engage in toxic behaviors. Amy highlights the importance of creating a safe space for learning and emphasises that psychological safety is not an end goal but a means to achieve broader objectives, such as innovation or quality. This episode provides valuable insights into the complexities of psychological safety, organisational culture, and the practical steps leaders can take to foster a climate of trust and learning within their teams. ‘Creating an environment where your voice is welcome’ Connect with Andy Lopata Website Connect with Dr Amy C. Edmondson Website