TLP390: Leadership Lessons from the CIA with Marc Polymeropoulos

Marc Polymeropoulos served for 26 years in the intelligence community in field and leadership assignments. He is an expert in counterterrorism, covert action, and human intelligence collection. Marc discusses the theme of building connections, and emphasizes the significance of internal, team, and personal relationships. He highlights the key to relationship mastery: empathy, active listening, and a shift from self-focus to team care. Marc shares insights into the art of making friends for a living, especially in recruiting agents, navigating the highs and lows of building trust. He introduces leadership principles such as the "glue guy" and "win an Oscar," emphasizing the value of every team member's contribution. Key Takeaways [03:13] Marc Polymeropoulos, a retired CIA pro with 26 years under his belt, specializing in counterterrorism. Marc digs on his recently devoured book,  highlighting its theme of building connections in the agency, with a focus on internal, team, and personal relationships. Marc spills the beans on the key to relationship mastery: empathy, active listening, and a shift from self-focus to team care. Jim throws in Stephen Covey's "The Speed of Trust," questioning the feasibility of quick trust-building in the spy world. Marc keeps it real, emphasizing the delicate balance between speed and the time needed for trust to truly stick. [06:43] Marc spills the beans on the art of making friends for a living, especially in the tricky world of recruiting agents.He shares the highs and lows of building trust, from family introductions to navigating personal connections in the espionage game. Teamwork is a different vibe here—think more competition than camaraderie. Going from a solo operator to managing a team brings a whole new set of challenges, shifting from a "me" to a "we" mindset. Marc keeps it human, spicing up the spy talk with personal stories. It's like your favorite spy thriller, but with a dose of realness and a dash of humanity. [15:17] Marc reveals a gem from his leadership principles – the "glue guy." It's all about recognizing that everyone on the team matters, from the case officers to the IT and finance folks. Marc shares how, over time, he learned that true success comes from valuing every contribution, not just the visible ones. He recounts a story from the world of baseball, emphasizing the importance of the unsung heroes – the backup catcher who never took the field but caught every bullpen. Marc introduces another leadership principle – "win an Oscar."  [18:29] Marc discusses the challenge of leadership – blending authenticity with the need to inspire. Drawing from CIA experiences, he emphasizes the importance of acknowledging tough situations without succumbing to negativity. He also touches on the evolving concept of truth, referencing a Bible verse at the CIA entrance. Marc reflects on their espionage skills, offering insights into navigating the complexities of discerning truth in today's data-driven world. [23:25] Marc has real advice for business. He stresses the CIA's focus on honesty and integrity, not just in missions but also how colleagues treat each other. He shares personal stories about integrity in action and the importance of speaking truth to power. He touches on high-stakes situations, the need for openness in teamwork, and the grounding principles that shape their work. [26:50] Marc sheds light on a side of high-stakes worlds rarely discussed—the human element. He discusses the importance of wellness and resiliency, drawing parallels between his experiences and those in military expeditions. Marc emphasizes the need for patience in careers, highlighting the struggle with issues like alcoholism and divorce. He introduces the concept of a "combat leadership chassis," urging individuals to focus on what they can control for better mental health. [28:03] Marc shares insights on the transition from hands-on leadership to strategic roles. He highlights the challenges of moving from tactical to executive positions, emphasizing the shift from day-to-day details to broader strategic decisions. Marc reflects on the importance of addressing budget presentations, resource meetings, and intelligence priorities in his senior executive role. [31:08] Marc shares a powerful story of overcoming adversity during a counterterrorism operation. He reflects on the loss of colleagues and his decision to return to Afghanistan to avenge their deaths. Marc emphasizes the importance of honoring those who sacrificed their lives in the line of duty. [35:02] Closing quote: And remember, written in Chinese, the word 'crisis' is composed of two characters. One represents danger and the other represents opportunity.  — John F. Kennedy Quotable Quotes "Relationships are everything. I was really good at the end, maybe not so great along the way, but here are the things I learned. What do relationships mean? Well, it means you have to have empathy. You have to have the ability to listen." "Bad news is not like fine wine. It doesn't get better over time." "It's not failing. It's failing and then learning from it. Failure is unacceptable. Failing is okay. That's adversity. That's how you grow and that's how you learn." "That makes me a hell of a recruiter because, again, it's that personal side. But guess what? My two-year or three-year tour is up, and you need to institutionalize that arrangement. So, again, this agent is not spying for me, Marc Polymeropoulos. He's spying for the CIA, for the US. Government. So I have to turn this person over to another officer." "First line managers struggle so much at CIA because all of a sudden it's like, hey, it's not about you. No more cable traffics. Marc Polymeropoulos saved the world. It's more of what did the unit do?" "Everybody matters. It's that power of contribution, and it's that everybody matters. And again, going back to the beginnings of my career, where it's harder to get into the CIA than it is to get into Harvard, it costs a quarter million dollars for the US. Government to train me into this kind of lethal machine." "It means you're on display all the time. You never have a day off as a leader. And I have to be careful with this because you also have to kind of caveat that with you have to be authentic." "But building trust does take kind of repeated instances of doing the right thing. The opposite of that is you can also lose it right away." "Do the right know, just be honest, be ethical, have integrity, and that, in essence, will build trust. And so that, to me, were kind of words that I live by." "You got to take care of yourself, your body, follow the path of these elite athletes who have been doing this for a long time." "Revenge is something that we're not supposed to talk about or use as any kind of motivation for kinetic activities." Here are the books mentioned in this episode Resources Mentioned The Leadership Podcast | Sponsored by | Rafti Advisors. LLC | Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC | Marc Polymeropoulos Twitter | Marc Polymeropoulos LinkedIn | Marc Polymeropoulos Website |