How 2 U.S. Veterans Acquired 42 Units in 15 Months

In this episode, brothers Ashton and Chris Levarek share how they built their family company, acquiring 42 units in only 15 months. We cover how they got started, how they structure their company, divvy up the work and optimize for rapid portfolio growth to build long-term wealth for their families. Check them out at valkeregroup.com and on their podcast The Art of Winning.  --- Transcript Before we jump into the episode, here's a quick disclaimer about our content. The Remote Real Estate Investor podcast is for informational purposes only, and is not intended as investment advice. The views, opinions and strategies of both the hosts and the guests are their own and should not be considered as guidance from Roofstock. Make sure to always run your own numbers, make your own independent decisions and seek investment advice from licensed professionals.   Tom: Greetings, and welcome to The Remote Real Estate Investor. My name is Tom Schneider. And on today's episode, I'm going to be interviewing Chris and Ashton, love Eric to veterans, and they're going to tell us about how they went from over 40 units in 15 months. They're also going to talk about how they structure their business working together as brothers and how they're building wealth for their family in the long term. All right, let's do it.   Christian, Ashton, welcome to the show.   Ashton: Thanks for having us, Tom.   Chris: Glad to be here. Good to be here.   Tom: Awesome. So before we get into it, I'd love to hear a little bit about your guys's backstory. Brothers. Let's Let's hear it.   Ashton: Yeah, we're brothers. Obviously, Chris and I, I don't know, I'm four years older. Joined the military right out of high school. did that for about 18 years? I did. I was a rescue swimmer for the Coast Guard. And then I went into pair rescue for the Air Force. But around 2018 Chris and I have always been pretty close. But yeah, around 2018. Chris came to me with this great idea of creating passive income. And you know, at face value, like Yeah, let's do it. Let's get some passive. You know, cash flow. Sounds great.   Tom: Chris, where'd it Where did Where did you get that? Where'd you get that concept? Are you kind of in the looking up on bigger pockets? Looking at the Who's that Rich Dad Poor Dad stuff? or How did you? How did that first come to you?   Chris: You know, I've been trying to think how the first how I first got involved. But definitely It must have been something bigger pockets a podcast, I can be 45 minutes to work. on my end, we'll go into my story. But somewhere along the road has like sounds great what these guys are doing. And here we are, you know, busting away for a 401k that probably isn't gonna pay what we think it's going to pay at the end of the day. Ashton: And I'm kind of one of those guys that like, if it sounds like a good idea, and we do a little due diligence, I don't need to know all the details. Let's go. And so that's kind of what happened. I was like, Yeah, let's do it. I was two years from retiring from the military. And, you know, I'll let Chris tell his story. But it made sense. At that time. I didn't want to get another job. I didn't, I didn't want to create that passive income. I did want that security without having to go get a new employer, you know?   Tom: Definitely. Chris, let's hear. Let's hear a little bit about your background.   Chris: Yeah, sure. So I'm in Phoenix, Arizona, now. been here for about the last, say 10 or 11 years now. My story, I followed my brother in the military. Before that I traveled I was in Europe for about two years in France, really like traveling. So I joined the military thought I get more traveling, they sent me to South Dakota. So…   Tom: That's traveling still counts.   Chris: Yeah. So I got to see the Midwest. That was cool. I did realize, you know, I didn't want to stay in full time. So I left after four years, I was a firefighter in the military decide not to pursue that went into it got my degree at ASU. In computer I computer administration, Information Systems get here, remember now. And then I joined it engineer for the last 10-11 years. And that's kind of where it all started was was I was changing jobs every two years in the IT industry, which is pretty common. And putting away the six to 10% a 401k. Like people were saying.   And you know, I started listening to podcasts, just random, different ones, I can't remember how I started listening podcast, but long drive to commute, started listening to bigger pockets when mainly and hearing just these people set themselves up with passive income that they don't have to go do something else. When they're 67 or rely on some kind of money. They've piled away for years to last them until they you know, eventually pass or you know what happens with the family? What happens to them after that money runs out.   So I got the wheels turning. And that's kind of where it all started. I was thinking if these people can do it, why can't we? So I was, you know, reading all the books at that point and the rest of this kind of journey.   Tom: Sure. Before we get a little bit further into the journey, and you know, making that transition, where you guys pretty close in high school where there's kind of like apprehensions going into business together. I'd love to hear a little bit about that.   Ashton: So our parents were entrepreneurs. And I know everybody says don't go into business with your family. But that's because everybody's an idiot. Now. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding.   Tom: I like it hot take. Yeah, but yeah.   Ashton: But you know, I think going into business with the wrong people. was the problem and understanding, you know, what you bring to the table and what they bring to the table and not everybody's equal, not everybody's different. And if you go around expecting everybody to do it the way you want to do it, you're, you're going to be heartbroken or upset at the end of the day, right? So I think Chris, and I were pretty comfortable being an entrepreneur with the idea of starting our own business, just because we saw our parents do it. Now, we didn't see them go through a lot of different troubles. So there was apprehension on that side, kind of like what you said.   But, you know, what are the more research we did? The more it made sense, Chris, and I have always been really close. We've been, you know, we're four years apart. But, you know, we're both very athletic. Yeah, yeah. We, I mean, we're both about getting stuff done. So that's kind of how it started. Initially, yes, there was a bit apprehension working together, like how we're going to make this work. But I think like I said, the clearer you get about your vision, and the clearer you get about what you need to accomplish that vision, and who sits in those roles to get that done, the easier it becomes.   And I think that goes family or no family, anybody, you know, everybody, anybody, you're going to hire anybody going to work with partner worth, whatever. And we can go into the tools and how we get in. We did that, that helped us figure out our roles and everything. But that's essentially it, you guys have to be clear about what you want out of the business out of the relationship, the partnership, everything has to be absolutely clear.   Tom: Definitely getting on the same page up front. So awesome. So let's, let's go ahead and take it back to 2018, I believe is when you guys started. What was the strategy? What were the assumptions? And maybe walk me through that through that first 90 days of getting getting going?   Chris: Yeah, there was. It took me I think March 2018. I started doing all the podcasts and books and we closed a property. I want to say it was October 2018.   Tom: Multi multifamily are what kind of, yeah, I'd love to hear about the market, the type of property, all that good stuff. A lot of cat backs are Yes or No, go ahead. I'll let you run with it.   Chris: Yeah, the first one, you always learn a lot. And, you know, that's, that's, that is the journey. That's the fun part, too. Like, it's not always about just getting a unit count. I think we've had a lot of fun along the way. So that first one.   I at the time, Amazon was about to land somewhere for the headquarters to me being an IT, I thought, you know, well, let's land right there kind of land. And we'll make a lot of money.   Tom: Yeah.   Chris: Ashton happened to be live in North Carolina at the time was working down, you know, in the military still down by a town called Fayetteville. And so right, you know, just north of that is Raleigh. And I saw that the rally was on the idea for for Amazon. So it's like, hey, let's go find something on rally because super expensive, but 20 minutes north west of that is Durham, and Durham has Duke University and North Carolina Central University. It's a big education town.   Tom: The triangle, right? Is that what they call?   Chris: Yeah, education? Yeah, yeah, exactly. And knew nothing about that time. But I was like, well, it was all based on Amazon. And turns out rallies a great market. So it was a good, good destination, we did look into, you know, we got a property manager in the area, we got an agent in the area. We vetted our kind of like, idea of the market, you know, what's the population look like? What what's the employment there? You know, we're all learning that as we're going.   We, you know, went all in on to duplexes. They were, I believe, 1940s really rough shape, interesting area of the neighborhood. Yeah, it wasn't right next to Duke, but definitely, there was already a lot of gentrification going on, there was properties being turned. So it looked like a good opportunity. We got in there, we did our you know, walkthrough on video, we didn't even visit it, you know, Ashton maybe drove up once or twice to go look at it. But, you know, we depended a lot on our team in the area. And that was the agent that was the property manager, the contractors. So they would come out and walk in and give us a bid. We did multiple bids on what we need to do.   But we were off by numbers. You know, we thought it would be a lot less repairs than it would be. And we just kept finding things as we were doing the work. To fix these up the strategy, really, we were trying to do the BRRRR approach. So we were trying to buy it, renovate it, and then rent it and refinance and pull all of our equity that we that we are capital that we invested into it, pull it out, and it becomes 100%, you know, return so that's what we're really looking to do. And as the cost kept rising, kept rising, were like i don't i don't know if this kind of work.   Tom: A couple of questions. I'll kind of sprinkle in there. So did you guys look at a lot of other properties before deciding on those two duplexes. Any other offers that you had in? Or was it just kind of like? It came up quick? And it's like, Alright, this one looks good.   Ashton: And we made a bunch of offers. Yeah. Terrible. Yeah. Yeah, we looked at a bunch of a bunch of other properties, we're working with a real estate agent at the time. And she would send us deals, you know, every every week, but I think there was a big learning curve with her as well as like, what she thought was a good deal versus what we thought was a good deal. And then, of course, the whole time, you know, every time she would send us something, Chris, or I would go and analyze it, using the bigger property or bigger pockets analyzer at the time.   So yeah, we looked at a lot of other properties, a wholesaler brought that to market and listed it and then she brought it to us. And I remember the first time we looked at it, I kind of thought, you know, you hear all those stories on on podcast, back then anyway, it's like, Oh, it looks like trash, it's probably a good deal. You know, that's not always the case. So sure, make sure you do your due diligence on the market on that neighborhood, make sure it can support that much investment for rehab, and still come out on top.   So we were lucky in that sense, like the neighborhood was turning, there was a I mean, we got that one at 209,000. There were homes being sold, built and sold for 600,000. right across the street, so are right down down the street. So it did work out.   Tom: Sure, yeah. Great to catch that, that timing. And, you know, as a good lesson not to wear rose colored glasses and think too. So you guys bought it costs are going up, you know, was there any kind of moments of apprehension of like, maybe we should just sell it and get out? Or tell me, you know, kind of through, you know, you guys still on the property today, let's hear a little bit more about this first earlier deal.   Ashton: I think there's always apprehension, should we sell it and get out? I mean, we've considered selling it. So we owned it, probably for two years, we'd probably considered selling it I don't know, three or four times throughout the whole deal. Like you're always learning. And if you're not learning, you're probably doing something wrong.   But we thought so when we refinanced it, we paid off, we paid our investor, we had an investor or a partner at the time, that did 70% loan to value. And that allowed us to get into the deal. And then we paid for the rehab, the rest and of course, the rehab, and we had to dip into our home equity lines of credit for that, as well as like, I can't remember if we use our maybe it was later that we liquidated our other investments. But you know, so when you do that you're like, well, if we don't refinance it fair enough. How are we going to pay back these other loans?   You know, so you're always considered, I think, in the beginning, you're always considering, like, did I do this, right? Yeah, are we going to be able to pay everybody back, as we got renters in it, and it was cash flowing. At that point, it made sense, we were able to refinance, that I'm not sure that we pulled everything out. But we were able to pay back our partner. And it was kind of a proof of concept. And a lot of times I think that's what happens is people don't take action, because they don't know if it's going to work.   The biggest takeaway from that for us was, it can be done. And so from there, we just took off sprinting, we were, we bought two more duplexes, five unit 13, unit 16 unit just kept going. Because you start to realize what's possible, especially when you start working with other people, if you're trying to do everything on your own, I think you're really gonna go a lot slower, and you get to make all the mistakes yourself. But you get to make all the learning to it's just going to be a slower process. For us, I think that was a big our biggest takeaway was like, if we work with other people, professionals, and by that I mean, other investor friendly landlords, investor friendly real estate, mortgage brokers and, and real estate agents and so on, like, those people are going to help you, right, they're going to help you be successful, because they need they want to be successful.   And so that's kind of what we started doing. We started that's exactly what we started doing. We started leveraging other people, not just financially but their experience. But yes, there was a lot of apprehension. I mean, not you know, you're always you're always doing that you're always like I did we make the right choice, should we sell Should we get out of this market? Should we go somewhere else? What don't I know, you don't know what you don't know sometimes. And that scares you the most.   Tom: That's, uh, that's pretty magic, as I remember my first deal kind of going from zero to one, you know, and you receive that first check. And it's like, wow, this is real. This is awesome. You know, you made a good point about leveraging other professionals. Be it property managers, lenders, all that good stuff. Did you guys kiss any frogs with regards to partners and I'd love to hear about kind of those stories and recommendations you'd make to people listening in finding that right you know, property manager, agent or whoever you know, to help build that team. I'd love to hear any of you guys have any editing, not horror stories, but I'd love learning experiences as the way that I'll put it with regards to partners. Especially doing a little bit more remote.   Ashton: Yeah, we've moved on to quite a few. I mean, I, we should sit down and count how many people will be partnered sometime? Chris, that'd be a good one.   Chris: Would be interesting, I think so we're probably up to three or four property managers now, before maybe four or five now, but bigger properties. But yeah, different contractors, you know, the biggest biggest recommendation, if you can find someone else's work with them, can give you a good review of that person. And it's honest review. It's not just a passing, you know, bigger pockets, they’re great,   Tom: it's not there, it's not their uncle or someone giving you the recommended   Chris: Yeah, and you can call them up and you can have that conversation, you know, beforehand, that's really the best thing I think a big problem people run into is they just kind of want to check the box and get it get the deal closed. So they just go out and find whoever you know, and they get a handyman, who who's doing their roof, or they get a contract crew who just is going to do the bare minimum, they're going to give you a great bid, but they're going to give you the bare minimum product as well. So that product will break down after a couple years. So was it worth the minimum bid, you know, so that a review of someone else can be worth its weight in gold. And sometimes you can even you know, pay someone or partner with someone to get that recommendation to get that connection or that, you know, buy them lunch or whatever.   We've been really fortunate, I think, you know, our first agent was probably she was not probably she was focused more residential. So asking her to find duplexes, you know, in a very hot market was hard for her to do. And she didn't know what we were looking for what our criteria was. And, and we didn't either, you know, as new investors, you're figuring out your criteria and experienced investors develop that criteria. And or they, you know, they read a book that really tells them what they should be looking for. But if you're new to the game, make sure you partner with experts already in the game, you don't want to be teaching each other along the way with your different partners.   So getting those recommendations, having those calls, vetting them is really important. But we've been Yeah, we had one property manager and you know, just did not follow our guideline to what we wanted to do did not raise rents, had multiple problems did not renovate units, did not lease to the right people. And it took a year for us to see these issues keep coming. And we not all sudden we're having weekly calls with them are like, well, this is not property management. This Is Us managing the property itself. And they're just they're just there physically. And so we did have to move on from them. That's why it's so important to talk to someone who's worked with them, because you won't ever everything's gonna appear so nice. That first relationship meeting, you really want to get some background to their their business.   Ashton: Yeah. And I think, tonight, caveat on what you're saying, Chris, I think the way we would have avoided that the way we stepped into that bad property manager was actually from a recommendation from a real estate agent. And so not to say he was definitely well meaning and we actually bought another deal with him later that year, I think. But the problem was, he wasn't using that property management company for his comp his business, right. So he was just given a recommendation off of based off of who he knew was doing property management in that market.   And like Chris said, that set us back, you know, set us back almost 12 months, I mean, if you think of like, it was a 13 unit apartment complex, if you're not performing the way you're supposed to be performing, you're not gonna be returned getting the returns you want. And if you have investors, like, yeah, your cash flow is going to hurt. But if you have investors, that's a big deal, right? investors or partners, and so taking that hit on the income, because of those issues that Chris just highlighted. Yeah, it was a big deal for us.   I mean, if you're going to take a recommendation from somebody you trust, do it, but definitely get those reviews, those I mean, everything's review basis, or these days. I mean, it's, it's almost impossible not to get good not to get reviews. If you go to somebody's business, if they're not listed as a business that maybe that's your first sign.   Tom: Yeah, so looking back in hindsight is 2020. I'd love to hear some thoughts you guys have around, maybe some things you would have done differently. So like, you know, it sounds like this one property manager doing a little bit more thorough vetting would be at any other kind of recommendation that people listening could take to their own, either getting started or scaling in doing some things differently.   Chris: Yeah, I think I think checklists are big. processes are big. I mean, I'm big on that. I mean it. We make systems for processes for everything. However, you never actually improve, unless you jot down what you did wrong and make a checklist to not do that again. And so we got really big on making just the process. We have processes for how we're going to take down 100 unit apartment complex, what that means multiple steps along the way to how we're going to take down a small multifamily deal or maybe a short term rental, there's different processes.   But if you don't have in there, you know, call the property manager and get three reviews, guess what the next time, you're probably not going to do it, you're going to skip it unless it really battle scarred you, then you won't forget that one. But we might forget to, you know, ensure that you get the extra money wired, you know, two weeks before, whatever the checklist item is, but note down what you did wrong, and then make a system so it doesn't do it again.   Ashton: But you know, and don't let that stop you from taking action. Because I think what Chris says is absolutely true. But if we had all the checklists To start with, like, I don't know, if that would have helped, like, you know, hammer home, how important some of the things are, like, taking action and making mistakes is what really builds that learning. I think those processes or systems are absolutely crucial. But at the same time, you can't wait for the perfect product before you take action. You know, I think that that pursuit of perfection is probably usually the biggest roadblock to people actually getting out there and doing something, whether that's investing passively, passively or going and taking a deal down yourself.   Tom: Paralysis by analysis is that is the term and I love both of those things. I think, you know, codifying, and systematizing, you know, but you know, you don't want to boil the ocean and have to be so perfect that you never take action, right?   I'd love to touch a little bit more. You guys talked about markets in Raleigh. Are you guys? Are you guys continuing to go deep in North Carolina? Or what other markets you guys in? And are you guys traveling out? there much are? Yeah, I'd love to hear about that.   Chris: The other caveat is partners, right? Kind of last last piece. So we have partnered with different partners and our markets have expanded because of that. So previously, we were focused really on partners with property managers, lenders, agents, and you could focus in a sub market or a market. We were in Durham, we went to Fayetteville, which is around Fort Bragg, North Carolina. Most we had about 45 units there. So small multifamily. Then we partnered and went to Columbus, Ohio. We had a bigger deal there. I was 84. Unit.   Tom: Sorry, did your property manager have coverage in that as well as that would lead you to jump over to that area? Or just   Chris: No, no, just another another partner, another investor group that, you know, we were big on partnering with other investors, another group like that, so we pulled resources together and took down a bigger apartment unit in Columbus, they actually had property management in Columbus. So there you go. You're leveraging the partners, experts in their team as well. We had those recommendations already, because they're using them. And so you know, it took a long time to develop that relationship that we with this other investment group. I mean, that was 8 months in the making. We didn't just jump in.   But that took us to Columbus, we flew out to Columbus, we did due diligence in Columbus, last year, April timeframe, I believe. And so walked 220 unit property, the 84 unit, the 220 fell through. But then, you know, after we did that 84 unit, we actually went to Texas, again, the property management company that our partners were using found a deal in Dallas Fort Worth. And they had offices there. So it made sense. We flew out to Dallas, late, late 2020, closed in November of 2020 on 120 unit deal out there as well, same property management company, same Investment Group partners, and that, you know, it was the same dream team come together. So it was easy to make that happen. I mean, not easy. COVID you know, threw itself curveballs.   Tom: Sure I'd imagine.   Chris: but then yeah, we just same same partners, again, different property management team. We just closed in Daytona, Florida 384 units. So that was our biggest to date, flew out to Daytona, I want to say, four months ago, three months ago. And that was a nice trip. I'll do detail. And again,   Tom: That's incredible. I mean, and also, you know, I don't think I've said it yet. Congratulations on all the success in partnering with some of these other investors in groups. How do you guys set lines of like responsibility, or you guys mainly coming in as kind of operators and aggregating vendors, I'd love to hear talking about that in in forming these partnerships, you know, less from the specific vendors that are like pretty straightforward, like the trades and the property managers, but more with like other investors.   Ashton: Yeah. So I think what it comes down to is you got to identify what you bring to the table first. What are you good at? Right. And I think I mentioned this before, I think one of the biggest problems people have is they think they have to do everything. But when you start to whittle away at what you don't like, what you're not good at, and what you're not suited, you know prepared to do, then you can find the people that can fill those roles. I it sounds really simple. But um, I see it over and over again, people think they need to do everything they need to take on more than they need to. I mean, I would rather have 1% of 100 great deals than 100% of one deal that I'm doing everything for.   With that in mind, Chris, and I kind of realized that we really enjoy building the investor relations, everything from raising the capital to preparing. I mean, nobody enjoys preparing taxes, but getting the taxes prepared by the end of the year, to keep it up to building that rapport with new investors to keep in that rapport with repeat investors. That whole passive investor pipeline, like building that up and helping people create passive income, because that's what they want to do. That was our focus. And so so where does that leave us? Like, how do we do deals, if nobody's bringing us deals, so we had to find somebody else that was had a good deal pipeline, and honestly, we, it really wasn't a, let's go find these people. It was more like, this is what we like doing. And we were focused on that we were focused on building that that relationship with passive investors, building out our profile, building out our brand, our network, you know, our website, all that stuff, we were focused on doing that.   And because we are so focused on doing that, other people found us, and so are our partners who we've done. Now, three, almost four deals with, they came to us and I like what you guys are doing. And we started, we start forming this relationship, like Chris said, it was a back and forth for eight months. And then he said, hey, look, we got the deal flow right now. Would you guys be interested in partnering and helping us raise the capital and, you know, bring investors to this deal and put it all together? And so that's what we did.   For a second there we we stopped, we're like, is this what we want to do? And, and Chris, and I kind of both thought about it for like, less than a couple minutes, we're like, this is exactly what we want to do. Because we're not suited to go finding deals right now. We're not suited to close it on deals to putting that together. So focus on your strengths, and talk about what you're doing. Because the more you get out there, the more you build that brand. And now people see what you're doing. And they're like, Yeah, I would actually like to work with these guys. These guys are solid dudes, they're out there, you know, actually doing the business. And they're not just talking about it. And that's what happened. And that's how it grew.   If you're looking to build partnerships, or if you're looking to partner with other people to to accelerate your growth. That's how you have to do it. I mean, focus on your strengths. And whether that can mean you know, a lot of people are like, I don't know how to do anything, but invest passively. Well, one of our partners, that's how he started, he invested passively in three syndications, before becoming a general partner on his own deal. And now he's off and running on his own. He's doing I think his last deal was 50 something units he did it all by himself, and, and that's what he wanted to do. But it's not for everybody. Like there's other ways to do it. Some people are good at raising capital, some people are really good at finding deals, some people really you know, so like, you kind of focus on what you're good at. And network, network network network.   Pierre: I have a question for you guys. I'm currently partnering with my brother to invest. And I just would love to hear if you guys could speak to the structure of your business. How do you guys break up the work between you two coming up with the capital for projects? Do you guys pool your capital together? Do you guys have your own investments going on within the business? Like how do you guys structure your business?   Tom: Great question Pierre.   Chris: We were really big on traction. Have you read that book? No, it's by Gino Wickman. Great book to build a business to. It's the EOS system. So I don't even remember what it stands for. But basically, it is about mainly two roles, but it's about function in a business. So what's your function in the business even as brothers we know our role in our function? So determining that most big businesses have two main roles, there's an integrator and a visionary. And the integrator is more like the system detail guy and the visionary is more like the big idea down the runway. Where are we going? lot of creative ideas, that kind of thing.   When you have those two, it's kind of that magic. You can see that without you know, apple, Steve Jobs. Steve Wozniak, Steve Jobs, obviously visionary Steve Wozniak, detail guy. So kinda, if you can get that combination, you don't necessarily need it. But if you can get that and then build out other roles and functions that you need in your business, and everybody knows their roles, there's a company map, there's clear structure on what you're supposed to be doing. Then there's clear accountability and you get much more towards your goals in that manner.   We do 90 day sprints. So quarterly goals every quarter reanalyze redo your goals. Every 90 day sprints doesn't matter what they are, it could, it could mean you know, read 20 books, whatever. Typically, you're going to make company goals of course that are on raising your current But you could have your own your own goals as well.   How do we build the structure? I mean, we have about a team of six. At one time we were you know, what, six, seven, I should say. We have one guy that works part time. That other than that we have multiple other partners that have their own companies. So I won't include them. But the six or seven, we meet weekly. So you have a weekly cadence. You know, what's your accountable, your view, if you're on track with those goals, those 90 day goals. So that weekly cadence that quarterly cadence, very important, and knowing your function and role, very important.   Traction will set you up, though, it's a really good book to do that. As far as our roles, I mean, you could probably tell them more the systems guy, I do all the tech, I'm an IT. Ashton's more the podcast guy, he's more the meetup. He's more talking to investors. And we know that we tried to do both. If you try to do both, everybody trying to do let me help you out with that, let me do this. Nobody's accountable for anything, and you don't do anything well, so you have to really focus on the area that you're responsible for.   Our Wives work with us. So full family business. My wife does the finance and legal thankfully, so I don't have to do any of that. You know, I'll do the ppm and the deal legal but she'll, she'll do mainly maintenance and management and operations of everything. We have an investor relations, lady named Lauren, she's she does save everything, onboarding investors, she also helps out my wife with finance and legal, my wife, Jamie.   And then Ashton's wife, she is taking on a new part of our business, she usually manages the property managers. So she does the operational side for the properties. But we are launching a new piece of our business, we are doing short term rentals as well. And she's taking that on as her full time project.   And we also have Olivia Olivia is like, leave is awesome. She's like, the executive assistant does everything gets Whatever you need, you know, for you schedule space, really helpful to have.   Ashton: So she's the rock star.   Tom: Yeah, keeps keeps it all in line. I found EOS his entrepreneurial entrepreneurial operating system, and it's a great recommendation, traction, I haven't read it, but I'll definitely pick it up. And I think it's something that I that resonates with me in talking about this and knowing your strengths is there's definitely a letting go of the ego aspect of it where, you know, you might think that Yo, I'm gonna do it better. Just like no, like, make a bigger pie. Choose what you're really good at, find other people that are good at that. And make a larger pie.   Pierre: Yeah, that's cool. Thanks guys.   Chris: So important for accountability, too. If everybody thinks they're responsible for something, nobody's responsible for anything. So make someone responsible, and you'll get way better achievement of those goals.   Ashton: And Pierre, I think you're asking too about pooling capital dialer. That's, that is a big one, right? It's touchy in the beginning? Like, do we trust the business enough to put my capital with yours, that I'll be able to get it back? And I'm not going to answer that question. Because I don't know what the situation you're in. But I read a really inspirational book, this last month, and I Chris knows exactly what I'm gonna talk about. So if you go read, Nike, what's his name?   Tom: Shoe Dog!   Ashton: Phil, Knight, Shoe Dog. Like, this goes back to what we were talking about before. Like, yes, Chris is talking about a visionary and an integrator. Or a CEO and a CEO, somebody that has the big vision that's looking up and ahead, he has the 10 year, five year plan, whatever. He doesn't know how he's going to get there. But somebody, but he's relying on the integrator to help build the steps to get there so that the integrator is doing the CEO is doing the day to day making sure all those little things are taken care of. And then, you know, the CEO, or he's looking out ahead and making sure they're on top, you know, going in that direction.   Well, if you if you read that book, Shoe Dog, talking about finances, he was a visionary, Phil Knight was the visionary. And he was so much a visionary, that he didn't take a dime, he didn't make any money. All he wanted was the for the company to be successful. And I'm not saying you have to have that kind of vision. But when you understand, when everybody's on the same page of that vision, people work for free people work because they love your culture, people work. And that goes to people you hired to see yourself now how much you're how much money you're going to put into the business how much your brother is going to put in or your other family members or stuff. Like that's going to be up to you. But I think it really comes down to how clear you guys are on the vision, like how much your clarity is key, and then making sure everybody's on the same page.   You know, and Chris and I had a good laugh about this the other day, because we both in COVID during COVID, the height of COVID. You can liquidate your for your Roth IRA with no penalty. And I did that. He did that. And we both joked about her like I don't know where that is. We invested that in our own business. You know, like where is that now? I'm Sure, because nobody's keeping a ledger of how much every each person has invested. Because that's our vision, Our vision is to build this family business that will support our family that will support this lifestyle that we want to do and be able to give 10% back to the nonprofits that we, you know, like, you know, that, like, that is our vision. So we both bought into it. So I don't know, that may help them may not maybe I'm just rambling.   Pierre: No, I think that's super helpful. There's a lot of wisdom in there. But I'll just follow it up with like, any words of wisdom for someone just starting out with their first property with a family member? Just getting things rolling, getting things off the because that first deal is we've been stuck in analysis paralysis for a while now.   Chris: Yeah, that's pretty normal. I was the analysis paralysis guy, I didn't want to move till I have all the details. But it's Yeah, talk it through, it's gonna be uncomfortable with family. But it's going to be way more comfortable than if he did it with a stranger. And that sounds weird. But you know, we've had many meetings where we're just like butting heads and disagreeing completely. But we totally agree that we're moving forward. You know, like, we either way it's happening, we're doing it, we're just agreeing and disagreeing maybe on how we're doing it.   But having the talk, communicating that weekly communication, really laying it all out, you know, what's the game plan? What's the exit plan, what's the role and function and just like you would make a LLC, or joint venture, do that with your family. I mean, there's nothing, no reason why it shouldn't have legal documentation, showing it because if nothing else, it's a business plan. And that's going to give you both confidence, or the family confidence that you're building a structure, you're not just, you know, spitting in your hand and doing a shake on it, you know, it's give the structure behind it. If you operate as a business, it will be a business, it will be a more successful venture than if you kind of just, you know, wing it, you want to wing it, but you also want to structure it, you know? So yeah.   Tom: What's it? Gosh, there's a term for it like organized chaos. So there's, I forgot the exact like, like on the edge. A couple more questions for you guys will have you I'd love to hear how your strategy has evolved over time. Like I said, all of you guys, are you guys doing pretty much to to plan or has it ever you guys pivoted at all? Since you guys started? And also kind of forward looking, you know, thoughts on how you see the strategy evolving in the future?   Ashton: Yeah, that's a good question. Because the strategy is always evolving. I think if you're not evolving, you're not growing, and you're probably dying, your business is probably dying at some level. I mean, the market is always changing, people's needs are always changing. Investors desires are always changing, like, we would not have been able to do what we do without building. So yeah, you want to like we wanted to get into syndications. It made sense, the economies of scale made sense. But to do that, we had to build out several different arms of our business, you know.   And to keep it brief not to ramble on it. But we you know, the website, that was a no brainer, you needed a website, that's your business card, that's your live business card that people can access at any time of the day, and they get a call to action. We wrote two ebooks explaining stuff that we're doing so that people could buy into that more so they could get educated more on what we're actually doing. We, Chris has poured like, countless hours into building the website, but then building a blog that he writes, he writes that every week, and then he plays into that using SEO. And if you're not familiar with SEO, please don't ask me to explain it cuz I don't understand how it works.   But I just know that people are they can find us on the internet easier because of his blog. And because he's manipulating the wording in the blog to help with SEO. So we had so like, yes, there's all these tiny little things that we had to do to build out so that we could support because at some level, right, if you're working with other investors, their capital is going to dry up. So you have to expand your network and how do you expand your network and then so we built out campaigns for social media, we built out campaigns for now we're starting a podcast we're gonna release here in a couple weeks.   You know, so following much the kind of like the strategy you guys are doing, but there's, there's multiple different steps to it to help expand and grow that. So yes, we pit it pivoted we, we started out small multifamily residential loans, and now we're into commercial loans and then large multifamily. But we're also part of our vision you want to talk about our vision is to have short term rentals everywhere we would like to vacation and that's not just for us, we want them to be the size to hold our whole team. We want our take our whole team on these twice a year, retreats around the country, and eventually the world. And then eventually we would like to build out a nonprofit side of this to support other veterans.   So like, yeah, there's the vision is always evolving, and then you're always pivoting. How can we you know, how can we structure this to meet the vision. So, yeah, we're getting into the Airbnb site. We're really excited about that. We're excited about our podcast launch this year, or this next month, or this month, actually August.   Tom: So you're always feel free to plug it feel, feel free to plug it, what's what's the name of the podcast.   Ashton: It's the Art of Winning. So it's not real estate related. And that's a whole nother strategy, because we don't want to work with other people that are real estate investors. Because we felt that, you know, if we can get involved with other people, like other people that are really out there trying to create passive income that don't know about real estate, I feel like that was a whole nother untapped market. So that's kind of where we're, we're focused here.   But yeah, so it's the Art of Winning, and we focus on health, wealth and happiness. There's that one, that'll be fun. I don't know. I've talked to some amazing people. And then what else are we doing, Chris? And I feel like we're doing so much. But yeah, this is not to write another book. I'm trying to work on another book.   Chris: So we're always pivoting. I think it's very chaotic for me, I like order and structure. But then you realize that if you do want to change and you set, that's why it's so awesome to set these goals 90 days, because you kind of say, well, we said it, I have no other choice. I have to work on it. I have to pivot otherwise this won't happen. The small multifamily we used to do we managed everything. And it was a lot of work. It was these weekly calls, we're still doing it. You know, we have two syndications that we managed solely us and we are multiple small multifamily deals. And, you know, we understood that that wasn't setting us in alignment with our vision. So we pivoted and that's why you set that vision first, you set those goals, you know if you're off track, because because you can just look at them. And you know, you need to pivot or you know, need to change.   Some people like Ashton said, they want to do everything. And I think it's more of an ego thing. They want to know everything. So they can just kind of tell everybody how smart they are. But I don't think when you're starting, it's very efficient for your business to do everything, and know everything. And it's really hard to know everything because he haven't done everything. So we found by by actually niching down and aligning more with what we were trying to achieve. We had much more success, and it was more in alignment with our audience and who we were trying to be. And that was much more gratifying than trying to be some kind of expert in every category every vertical along the way. So we pivoted in that manner.   Tom: Know what you don't know and know what you do and focus on that. Pierre, do you have any more questions? After this, I'm going to go into some quickfire questions at some some quick either or questions.   Pierre: Instead of just building your own portfolios of properties. Why is it that you chose to go together instead of just did you feel like you had more reach? If you guys join forces?   Ashton: I say this all the time. I like quotes, I'm big on quotes, quotes and books, I read a lot of books. So there's a quote, it's like, go fast alone or go far together. Right? So what are you trying to do? Right? I mean, we're Where are you trying to get to? I think Chris and I are skills to absolutely compliment each other. And we didn't realize that at first. But there's a great tool for that, if you're like the Traction will help you identify what roles need to be filled.   But then go use Tony Robbins, the disc profile, not just for yourself, but learn about whoever you're partnering with. I mean, it's a no brainer if you're doing it with a family member, because you guys can people love learning about themselves, but then share it with each other and be like, yeah, you want to analyze properties, it says here, your you are not detail oriented, I don't think you should analyze any properties. So it helps you identify their strengths. And then you can place them and place yourself where you need to go. And that's where we were at the beginning, like Chris and I were doing everything. like he'd analyze a property then I'd analyze a property. And then I talked to a mortgage broker and he talked to a lender and we're all doing we're double tapping everything, you know, we're doing the same stuff.   And once you realize like, what you're not good at, but that's a slow way of doing it. If you can do it through something like a disc profile, like through Traction, stuff like that, that's gonna help you identify and speed that process up.   Tom: Alright, so I got a couple of questions here. They're either or questions and, you know, not not not a long discussion, just kind of like one or the other no right or wrong question. So, you guys ready for some quickfire questions?   Ashton: Let's do it.   Tom: All right. Consolidation or diversification?   Chris: Diversification.   Tom: You guys can also have different answers if you want but if you want…   Ashton: I think consolidation.   Tom: Oh, I like it. I like it. This is a good one hearing about where your properties are at. High property taxes or high income taxes?   Ashton: Income taxes.   Chris: It depends on the law states now.   Tom: I know some of them probably have way higher rental or property versus, you know, our Alright, here's a good one high rent growth or low vacancy?   Ashton: Rent growth.   Chris: I like low vacancy.   Tom: Wow, I like this that. I can totally see how you guys complement each other and that you're thinking of like different angles. It's awesome. Cash Flow or appreciation?   Ashton & Chris in unison: Cash flow.   Tom: Debt or equity?     Chris: Equity.   Ashton: Debt.   Tom: Small multifamily or big multifamily.   Chris: Big multifamily.   Ashton: Big.     Tom: Local or remote investing remote?   Chris: Remote.   Ashton: Remote.   Tom: Good. You're on the remote real estate investor. Turnkey or massive project?   Chris: I think that depends.   Ashton: Depends Yeah, I know you don't want long. Depends what type of asset we're talking about.   Tom: Okay. Okay. Big multifamily. Let's say it's a big multifamily. You want massive project or turnkey?   Chris: Massive.   Ashton: I think value add massive project. Yeah.   Tom: Alright. last three questions unrelated to real estate, Midnight Oil or early bird worm?   Chris: Early bird worm.   Ashton: Early bird.   Tom: Text message or email?   Chris: Email.   Ashton: Text.   Tom: Loving to the dual duality of this. Very Okay, last question. Maybe the most important one. Olive oil or butter?   Chris: Olive oil.   Ashton: Olive oil.   Tom: All right. You guys made it are you guys made it through the quickfire questions? You know, I'm going to add one last question just since any book recommendations for the audience? Yeah. Or what's the most recent one that you read in like, Oh, yeah, this is good.   Ashton: I really like shoe dog. I thought it was inspirational. When you realize how long that guy was in debt. Before he hit it big. And how much he invested into his dream like you realize that I mean, that is the American dream. And it's awesome. I mean, I I was super inspired by what he did. And I never used to really like Nike.   Tom: Yeah, you know what it's also like, relevant. I'm familiar with that book is kind of similar to what a lot of the theme of this conversation is like, know what you're really good at. And you know, he brought in some other folks on the finance side like exactly just like you said, like he knew the brand and like, I know, I love it. Yeah. Great. Great. Great book rec. Awesome.   Yeah. Go sir.   Chris: I’ll give you two. If you like shoe dog Greenlights by Matthew McConaughey is outstanding, same kind of book, but more of a kind of memoir of his life. If you want to do any kind of business, and most of them have marketing, Dot Com secrets is outstanding. So it's not about building website. It's really about building funnels by the owner of clickfunnels His name is Russell Brunson.   Tom: Love it, Chris and Ashton. How can people get ahold of you? They want to learn more about Calgary. What would you recommend?   Chris: Yeah, definitely. The easiest way just go to the website, Valkyrie group comm v a l k e r e group.com they'll put in the link I'm sure. But you can get ahold of us there. We got plenty of content there. Blogs, ebooks, you know, free content, investment opportunities. So feel free to visit the website, get a hold of us and we'll form connection.   Ashton: And keep a lookout for the our podcast. Art of winning. Should be fun.   Tom: Thank you so much to Ashton and Chris for joining us. Super excited to learn more about their podcast that's coming out the art of winning. And as always take a look at Roofstock Academy. If you are interested in learning more about real estate getting the next level coaching all kinds of good stuff go to www.roofstockacademy.com. And as always, happy investing