How to achieve financial independence to retire early with Diania Merriam

Diania Merriam is the founder of the EconoMe Conference, a financial independence conference, and the host of the Optimal Finance Daily podcast. At the age of 28, Diania climbed out of $30K of debt in 11 months to begin her journey to financial independence.  In this episode, Diania shares about what it took to reach debt freedom and how she is powering her path to retiring early. This episode is loaded with actionable insights for you to get your finances in order and start building real wealth. --- Transcript   Before we jump into the episode, here's a quick disclaimer about our content. The Remote Real Estate Investor podcast is for informational purposes only, and is not intended as investment advice. The views, opinions and strategies of both the hosts and the guests are their own and should not be considered as guidance from Roofstock. Make sure to always run your own numbers, make your own independent decisions and seek investment advice from licensed professionals.   Michael: Hey, everyone, welcome to another episode of The Remote Real Estate Investor. I'm Michael Albaum. And today with me, I have Diania Merriam, who's going to be talking to us today about the economy conference that she is the founder of as well as some financial independence tips that she has learned along her life's journey. So without further ado, let's get into it.   Diana, thank you so much for taking the time to come talk personal finance with me today. I really appreciate it.   Thanks for having me.   Michael: No, my pleasure. So you are the founder of a really cool conference called economy.   Diania: Yeah.   Michael: Tell us a little bit about what that is. Because I know it's coming up here in like 30 days, right?   Diania: Yes, we are exactly a month away at the time of this recording. But essentially, economy, the easiest way to describe it is it's like the TED talks of the fire movement. And you guys can't see me. But I'm doing air quotes over here, because we're not associated with TED talks, which is like the easiest way to explain what it is. So we have amazing mainstage speakers that talk about financial independence from a lot of different angles, whether it be really tactical information, or just more inspiring stories. And then we also do a number of breakout sessions to kind of connect you with like minded people. Because as you know, money is such a taboo topic, right? And we don't often get the opportunity to surround ourselves with people that are comfortable talking about this stuff.   So one of the things I like to say about pursuing financial independence is like what's the point of being FI and retiring early if you have no one to hang out with? Right, here's your opportunity to meet your people to meet your tribe.   Michael: Your playmates yeah.   Diania: Exactly. So we've got all these breakout sessions, we do an after party, we do a lot of social activities on the last day of the event. So it's really just an amazing weekend, someone last year describes it as a party about money, which is exactly the vibe I was going for.   It's really, the point of it is inspiration and community around a topic that is so you know, influential for us all?   Michael: Oh, that's awesome. And is I know, this year, it's out in Cincinnati. Is it always in Cincinnati? Or does the location move every year?   Diania: Yes. So we're actually in our second year, because I had the brilliant idea of launching an event based business in the middle of a pandemic.   Actually, our first event was March 7 of 2020. It was one week before everything shut down due to COVID. But I had been planning the event for 20 months. This was like something I could have never anticipated that I would have to navigate. So yeah, we got really lucky on our first event. And this is actually going to be our second and yes, it's at the same venue, which is the University of Cincinnati.   Michael: Awesome, awesome, awesome. So I've got kind of a question for you. And I'm curious, why did you think you were qualified to host and found a conference talking about money? What's your story? Like?   Diania: Yeah, like who the hell do I think I am? I mean, as far as qualifications? Um, that's a great question. I think that I was just someone with a really ambitious idea. That's probably crazy. Most people told me I was crazy. When I when I first came up with this idea, but the reason why I wanted to do this is because figuring out my financial situation completely changed my life. So my background is that, you know, my 20s, I was very focused on my career, living in New York City. I got to my late 20s, about 28. I decided I should probably look at my money situation, like what's going on here, right. And I ran a credit report on myself and realize that I was 30 grand in debt for like no good reason. It was simply living outside my means.   And half of that debt was student loan debt, which doesn't sound too bad until you consider that I got a full academic scholarship to college. Like, the fact that I had any student loan debt is just ridiculous. It still blows my mind. But when you're at that age, and you're completely financially illiterate, you know, someone offers you loans, and you don't really…   Michael: Oh look free money!   Diania: I mean, you Yeah, you just, it's just what you do, right? No one like advised me that maybe that wasn't a great idea. So I found myself in this situation where I'm 30 grand in debt in my late 20s. My 30th birthday is looming. I think it's one of those really reflective birthdays for like, what am I doing with my life?   Michael: Yep, right.   So I came across this article that was sent to me by a friend from Mister Money Mustache. I'm sure you know that blog, right?   Michael: Know him very well, yeah.   Diania: Yes, one of the most popular probably the most popular blogger in the fire movement, which I keep throwing around this word fire. I want to make sure everyone's on the same page stands for financial independence retire early. Right, To me it's a it's a lifestyle movement with a goal of financial freedom. But a lot of people look at it as like a bunch of frugal weirdos and we're all in a cult.   Diania: It's not   Michael: Chanting about money.   Diania: Yeah, exactly. So I discovered Mister Money Mustache. And I like to say that I think the article was something about like, viewing your debt as an emergency. And I like to describe finding that blog as a refreshing punch in the face, because I had never heard anyone talk about money the way that he did. And I just devoured that blog with a spoon. I read like every single article, I got a little obsessive over it.   But it really inspired this very deep mindset shift within me. And I did a complete 180 I got out of that 30 grand of debt and 11 months. And from there, I started saving about 60% of my income. And it completely changed my life. It opened up so many options. That just didn't seem possible for me like that, it allowed me to dream bigger, you know. So one of the things that motivated me to even want to get out of debt is I had this goal to go walk the Camino de Santiago, which is a 500 mile trek across Spain. It just seemed like this ridiculous life adventure that felt so outside my comfort zone. But it's what I wanted to do for my 30th birthday.   So getting out that was kind of a motivator for me to get out of debt. And then when I got back from that trip, so that was in 2017.   Michael: Wait, timeout. So you did it?   Diania: I did it. Yes.   Michael: So when I got back, you just glossed over it! Oh, that's incredible.   Diania: Yeah, it took me 38 days, and it was a wild adventure. absolutely wild. Yeah, I walked with anywhere between 10 to 20 miles a day, with like, 20 pounds on my back, I met incredible people. That's actually I have an arrow tattoo on my wrist,   Michael: Okay.   Diania: And it's because the whole way is marked by arrows. They're like spray painted on trees, or like, carved into these stones. And so every time I would see an arrow, it'd be like a very comforting symbol that I like, wasn't lost.   Michael: Still on the right path.   Diania: So yeah, yeah. So um, when I got to Santiago, which for many people is the finish line, I ended up getting this tattoo. But yeah, that's something that I would have never dreamed would be possible, given my financial situation in my late 20s. And, you know, a lot of the people that I met on the trail were in their 60s or they were at traditional retirement age, they had to like wait to be able to do that. So it just getting my money in order opened up this incredible option.   And I just feel like my getting my finances in order almost allowed me to ask bigger questions like, What do I want to do with my time? What do I want to create? What kind of people do I want to surround myself with? And so getting out of debt was a big milestone in that regard. Walking the Camino was a big milestone. I negotiated a remote working arrangement with my employer. So I moved from New York City to Cincinnati, which people are like, what, why? Why would you do that?   But I will tell you that Cincinnati has everything that you would want out of a big city with like none of the downsides. And the cost of living, you just can't beat it. I mean, I really am marketing Cincinnati as the number one city to pursue financial independence. And a couple things we're doing actually at the economy conference in that regard, like our coffee vendor as a local vendor.   We're doing an urban hike on Sunday morning of the event, a three hour urban hike to show off how amazing Cincinnati is. And then with Roofstock, we are doing a chartered real estate bus tour. It's a two hour tour where we're going to drive you around the amazing neighborhoods in Cincinnati that are really good investments. And we have an expert that owns 42 doors here. He's flipped three dozen houses, and he's going to do some case studies on his best properties.   So if you are interested in low cost of living in an amazing city, you've got to come out to Cincinnati and I feel like I have the authority to say that because I came from New York City that's usually whatever where everyone wants to go.   Michael: Yes.   Diania: Now come to Cincinnati.   Michael: I love it. And I'm gonna second that call to action to get out to Cincinnati. I do a lot of investing out in Cincinnati and across the river in Covington, Kentucky, and I went out to visit a property and I happen to be there actually around this time a little bit later in October and found myself and I think the second largest Beer Fest or Oktoberfest, rather outside of Munich, Germany, and just had an absolute bombing, the food scene. I think they've got the most micro breweries like per capita of maybe any city. Tons of coffee places, Coffee Roasters popping up, it is just a very, very cool city for no one who, for people who haven't been before, so totally love it. Love it. Love it.   Diania: Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, being out here getting back from the Camino, you know, I adopted dog, I buy a house, I find myself a Midwestern gentleman, you know, life is good. Yeah. But I was still kind of asking myself these big questions like, What do I want to do with my time. And so at this point, I'm saving 60% of my income, I'm still, you know, fully employed with the same company that I had worked for nine years in New York City. And I had this idea that you know, what I was asking myself, what would I want to do with my time if I no longer had to work for money?   And I decided I wanted to create this party about money. And a big reason for that is because I had been going to different events, and exposing myself to people that were very, like, growth oriented, their life seems so expansive, and it really helped me broaden my perspective on what's possible in my own life. So for example, one of my favorite events is called World Domination Summit. I know that sounds insane, like who produces that, pinky in the brain?   Michael: Pinky and the brain, yeah, exactly.   Diania: But this event, I mean, as someone as frugal as me, you know, I got out of 30 grand of debt and 11 months, I really brought down my spending in order to do that this event is $700 A ticket. And I will tell you, it is worth every single penny. Because the people that you meet there are just incredible, and they're doing such amazing things. And every time I would leave, I would feel like my life is so full of possibility. I also had gone to events like Camp FI, or Camp Mustache, sense positive. These are kind of rooted in the financial independence community. And it's a way for people to spend a weekend together with like minded people.   Now, I saw an opportunity to create kind of a large scale event. So like Camp FI, Camp Mustache, usually around 60 people for like a weekend at a retreat center. Right? I wanted to do something more like World Domination Summit that's a little bit more grand. It's more of a production. You know, it's more of a show. It has a really strong entertainment element to it. And so I modeled my event really after World Domination Summit, but I brought that price tag way down. I'm actually doing it for $200 A ticket, but it is definitely worth $700 A ticket. I'm not charging enough.   But yeah, it's funny, because this event was supposed to be my early retirement project when I reached FI at 40 years old, but I just got so excited about it. I couldn't wait. I had to do it now. And I'm really glad that I did. Because it's been quite the adventure.   Michael: Oh my god, what a cool story. And next time someone asks, don't gloss over the fact that you hiked 500 miles. That's an amazing feat, among many others. You just mentioned that is so cool. That is so cool.   So I,   Diania: Well thanks so much.   Michael: No, of course, of course, what I'd love to do is kind of get into the meat and potatoes, if you will, of financial independence and just kind of getting your finances or so I think your story where you found yourself in your late 20s is so common for so many people, they don't realize what student loans are, how the payback works, how debt works, how finances work. So what did you do? Other than change your mindset, like brass tacks, what did you do on a daily, weekly, monthly basis? And you were able to pay off 30,000 in debt in 11 months? Because that's that's something no small feat.   Diania: Yeah, I would say big lifestyle changes, right. So when I looked at where I was spending money, then I would say the first thing I did was increase my awareness around my situation, honestly, because a lot of us are just swiping the credit card, we're not paying attention of where our money is going. So I started tracking every single dollar I spent. And I saw that I was spending a ton of money eating out, you know, going out for happy hour. I mean, let's be honest, I had my 20s in New York City, you know, like I was a party animal.   And I think what I obviously like I was very social creature, I mean that's kind of another reason why I'm into these in person events. I'm a very social person, very extroverted. So I was spending so much money going out. And so what I ended up doing, and I think this is really important, when you think about decreasing your expenses, a lot of people look at that as deprivation, they look they think of it as I can't go out anymore. And I saw it as an opportunity to be resourceful and creative, and really to get to the root of what are my values and how do I align my spending with my values in a more efficient way.   So the value for me was spending time with other people, I don't need to remove that from my life, let me just do that a little bit more efficiently. So I started like hosting these elaborate dinner parties in my apartment, where I would like makeup games, I made my apartment more fun than a bar, everybody else would bring the booze, I would cook the food. And you know, I'd always have themes like, I just, I think back on that time, and it was so wild. Like I would tell people, you know, bring a photo from your awkward phase. And then we'd like all pass around these photos around and like make fun of each other or like   Michael: That’s so good   Diania: The night was like, was like tonight's the evening of compliments. And it was like a game of who can give the most compliments to other people at the table. And we would like, we would like keep score. I mean, it was just silly, but it scratched my itch for human connection in a really resourceful way. Another thing I did was, you know, rather than buying clothing, I would host these clothing exchanges, all of my more fashionable friends would clean out their closets, I would do like a clothing swap, while sipping mimosas and listening to music in my apartment on a Sunday afternoon, you know, I started to see my, my frugal behaviors is actually far superior than the convenience of swiping a card because I not only got my needs met, but I also got to be creative in the process.   And so I kind of feel like if you're reducing your expenses, and it feels like deprivation, I think that you're not being creative enough about it, I think it can be a really fun thing. And I also think the other piece of it is really understanding that that hedonic treadmill, we're all on when it comes to consumerism, right? We all want, you know, the new shoes and the fancy car and the nice stuff. And I think that I had to really grow a new sense of gratitude for what I have. Now.   If you develop a deep appreciation for what you have now, you're almost combating that desire for more. Right, I think you're combating your consumerist conditioning. And I started to see things that I used to think were a burden, I would just laugh them off as a first world problem. So for example, we all know, the big three, right? And personal finance, when you're reducing your expenses, you want to reduce your housing, transportation and food, those are the things that people spend the most money on. And so I was locked into a lease, you know, or, you know, with my apartment, so I couldn't really do anything about that transportation. I didn't have a car, I was using public transportation. And I had, like, commuter benefits through my job. So I feel like I was optimized there.   But when it came to food, I could I could really have a huge effect there. So I started cooking every meal that I ate. I was bringing lunch every single day making, you know, gourmet breakfast, of like omelets with goat cheese and smoked salmon. I mean, I was eating very well, I'm not talking rice and beans. But for most people, when I would tell them I'm cooking, every meal I am eating, they look at that as such a burden.   And it's like, actually, no, I should be celebrating the fact that I have access to a grocery store that I can get any ingredient I want at any time at that grocery store, right? Like, we are so fortunate and I think if we can shift our mindset and be grateful for how fortunate we are, we're combating that desire for that consumerist convenience. Another thing that really struck me when I was reading Mister Money Mustache is he says that luxury is a weakness. And that really helped me shift my mindset because I realized if I can be happy on very minimal amount of money, that's like a superpower. Right? And I wanted to learn that skill before something externally happened.   So I think self imposed restriction, it has the opportunity to lead to a lot of personal development, when it's externally imposed by a job loss, or like a health scare. I didn't want to try to learn it under those conditions, I think it would have been a lot less fun, you know. And so I think it was really empowering for me to just learn to live on less and enjoy it. I mean, I spent a lot more time reading books from the library and working out and journaling. And I stopped wearing makeup for a long time and got comfortable with my with what my face looks like. I mean, you know, these are all things that you can look at it as deprivation or you can see it as incredible opportunity to grow.   Michael: That's incredible. Total side note. Do you know Wim Hof?   Diania: Yeah.   Michael: Are you a big Wim Hof fan?   Diania: Oh, What a weirdo. Yeah, that guy. My boyfriend does his breathing every morning. It's really obnoxious.   Michael: Oh, that's awesome.   Diania: Yeah, here I'm like huffing and puffing in the living room this morning. So my wife is a huge fan. And I've come on board to the cold plunge thing I totally buy into, but he talks about forcing yourself to be uncomfortable and putting yourself in uncomfortable situations. So when life throws something that you, you can handle it. And that totally sounded very similar to what you're talking about of, hey, do it for yourself. So that way, when life throws you a curveball, you're more than ready.   Diania: Absolutely.   Michael: No, I love that. I love that. But you also did. I mean, you also uprooted your life and move that in New York and to Cincinnati. So yeah, I mean, you said that you were locked into this lease, but it doesn't sound like you renewed that lease, or you stayed in New York much longer after having this revelation.   Diania: Yeah. And, you know, when I was in New York, for about 10 years, I had to move almost every year. I think the longest I stayed in a place was like a year and a half, maybe two years. But it's, you know, you're constantly changing roommates, because no one can afford to live alone. And then the rents will go up like $100 every year. So you're really forced, I was forced even deeper and deeper into the bowels of Brooklyn, you know, and then I ended up, I ended up getting this. The last place I lived. I did live there for two years is the first time I've ever lived alone as an adult.   It was in Sunset Park and I was paying $1,800 a month for this like cockroach infested apartment. That was just Yeah. So when I was making the decision to go walk the Camino and 2017 My I did the Camino in the fall, my lease was up in May of that year. So my landlord wasn't going to let me sublet for those two months. So I knew I was going to have to leave anyway, and find a different situation. And so it was like if I'm gonna move again. And I'm in this situation where I've got no man, no kids, no debt. Let me just go, like, put my big girl pants on and move to the Midwest and try something different, you know?   Michael: Yeah totally.   Diania: Just, I was always intimidated by the idea of like uprooting my life and starting over in a new city. But I had the benefit of I had a really close friend in Cincinnati, who I visited a few times. And so I got the sense of the area. And she was my only connection to Cincinnati isn't like I grew up here. I grew up in New Jersey. I had no other friends or family or anything besides her. And that was really helpful, though, because she was another very social person. So she just dumped me into her friend circle. Oh, and that's kind of how I got going here. Yeah, yeah.   Michael: That's great. That's great. And so now that you are kind of on the other side of the wall, or standing on top of the wall or the mountain, what advice do you have for people? I mean, in addition to the wealth of knowledge you've already shared, what do you what do you see looking forward? And what can you share with people?   Diania: Yeah, um, I would say when you're first starting out, like I'm helping a friend right now who's really deep in debt, who is just starting from scratch, trying to clean up her finances. And when I sit with her in our meetings, it's like, she's just so overcome with shame, and fear. And she's like sweating, as we're talking about this stuff. And I encourage her as well as anyone else in that situation, let your curiosity be bigger than your fear.   Because when it comes to money, it really is all figureoutable. But you have to have the mindset that it's fixable in order for you to be able to kind of face the music and like look at the reality of your situation, so that you can come up with a plan to dig out of it. It's totally possible. But it really all starts with your belief system. So there's a lot of people where I'll tell my story, and they'll say, Well, you could do that. But here are all the reasons why I can't do that.   Michael: Why I can't, right. Yeah.   Diania: And and I think if that's your initial reaction, that's your first thing that you got to tackle. I think you've got to change your belief system to recognize that it is possible and start to get curious about how it could be possible versus just immediately dismissing it. I think that's good advice for when you're first starting out. I think as you move through your financial journey, and you start hitting milestones, like for me, I hit debt freedom. Amazing. Then I had a fully funded emergency fund. Awesome. Then I started fully funding my retirement vehicles to the point where I reached Coast FI, which for those who aren't familiar Coast FI means that I have invested enough in my retirement vehicles that in 30 years because I'm 34 right now, it will grow to what I need for traditional retirement. So in essence, I don't really have to save for traditional retirement anymore. If I didn't care about early retirement and I can kind of take my foot off the gas a little bit because I've hit those certain milestones.   And then, you know, saving to a place where I got my first side hustle so I started hosting this podcast called optimal finance daily, which is a daily show, 10 minutes or less, I'm reading you articles about personal finance. So I like to say that all these amazing personal finance bloggers wrote these great songs, and I get to perform the covers, you know.   Michael: That’s great.   Diania: It's, it's a show that's been around for five years, and they were looking for a new host, and I just went for it. And so this is kind of my first, you know, little side hustle income.   So, I would say though, as I've progressed through these milestones, my trajectory and goals for the future have definitely shifted. So I would say, like, be flexible about financial goals, because when I first started this, I thought, What I wanted was to just reach financial independence and retire early. And then as I've gone along through the years, and it's only been, what, six years that I've been on this journey, my desires and goals kind of keep shifting and changing, because the, it's almost like, the universe presents you with opportunities along the way.   And so if you're so laser focused on just reaching financial independence, you may miss out on these opportunities to learn about yourself and learn about what do you want to do with your time? What do you want to create in the world? And who do you want to spend that time with those three questions to me, has become kind of the focus on my path to FI. It's not like I gave up on my goal. But I just I've kind of, I'm not so laser focused on the money piece of it. Because I've realized that money is only as valuable as your clarity on how you're going to use it, and your comfort level with how much is enough.   So if you don't have clarity and comfort around your money, yeah, if you don't have those two pieces, you could be a multimillionaire and still be miserable. Right? I don't want to reach that point. I want to use my financial bandwidth to kind of explore those two things along the way. I also love this quote from Ayn Rand who wrote like The Fountainhead, and she says, money is only a tool, it will take you wherever you want to go. But it won't replace you as the driver.   And I just think for so many of us, we look at money as the goal versus as the tool to use to reach our goals. And that's something that I had to learn in in for myself, because I had always just kind of had money as the goal once I discovered the fire movement.   Michael: Yep. Yeah, no, I'm right there with you. And I always said, I'll figure it out when I get there. But then I realized, oh, there's too many other things to figure out along the way, that having money be the tool is a much better way to go.   Diania: Absolutely. If you're miserable on your path to FI you're likely going to be miserable when you reach FI   Michael: Yeah. Yeah, I think that's so well said. So well said. And so then I'm curious if you can share with everybody, what is it? What is your investment kind of portfolio look like? Is it stocks? Is it bonds is a real estate? How do you see yourself hitting that hitting the hitting FI?   Diania: Yeah, so I went for the Simple Path to Wealth model. And I would say that most of my money is in the tax advantaged accounts of what my 401k So I actually quit my job in January of this year. That's crazy. That was 10 months ago.   Michael: Congratulations that’s awesome.   Diania: Yeah. So okay, so little sidebar, that's kind of a really good representation of what I mean about being flexible, because I had just thought that I was going to stay with my employer until I reached financial independence. But things changed, right, I ended up getting this new boss, the dynamic of the company, after nine years of being employed, there changed considerably. And so, you know, the, I kind of felt like the party was over, and the company didn't value me anymore.   And so I could have just put my head down and pushed through it because I have this goal of financial independence. But instead, I decided to kind of take a risk and a bet on myself to see like, Okay, I've got this, but I like to call FU money. So that that's defined as a year to have your expenses liquid. So I had a year in cash, and I had a year in after tax brokerage, which I really don't want to touch the after tax brokerage, but it's almost like my backup plan, my additional layer of a safety net. But that's something that it was almost like the universe presented me an obstacle and an opportunity at the same time. And so that could potentially slow my path down to FI.   Or something could happen. And I could, you know, find a new source of income. I'm exploring like 14 different sources of income right now. And so one of those could blow up and then it could expedite my path to FI. It's almost like I gave up the security of a regular paycheck and opened myself up to the uncertainty. You know, like I had plotted out my whole plan before because it was based on a steady paycheck. And now it's not. So who knows? Maybe I reach FI by 40? Maybe not. But to answer your question directly, um, I have my IRA. Now a traditional IRA, that was a rollover from my 401k. I've got a Roth IRA, and also my HSA   Michael: That is tough to say five times fast.   Diania: Yeah yeah So I have, I would say, the bulk of my money is invested there, and I am like, VTSAX all the way, I just, I'm 100%. In stocks, I don't have any bonds, because I have a very high risk tolerance. But also I don't want to be, I don't want to have to rebalance every year. Right? It just is simpler for me that I don't need to rebalance every year. It's all in a total market index fund, set it and forget it. I also own my home.   Now, for the first two years, I had a roommate who was paying like 95% of the mortgage. So I did a little bit of house hacking. But I did buy this house with the knowing that it would be an amazing rental one day, so I'm living in it for now. And I believe that this will I don't look at it as an investment yet. I think it's going to be once I start renting it out sometime in the future.   But yeah, I would say that my investments are very much so just simple stock portfolio with my retirement vehicles, a property that could become a rental property, I do want to get more into real estate in the future. I will be honest, that is something that has intimidated me so much I should take your course.   Michael: Come to Roofstock Academy, Yeah absolutely!   Diania: Yes, yes. And all of my friends are reaching financial independence so much quicker than me through the real estate strategy. So I'll tell you a fun story. My one of my first events that I went to five events was called Camp Mustache. It's like followers of Mister Money Mustache. And I actually ran a breakout session. That was all attendee case studies. So there were four of us, who basically opened up the books on our finances, here's our income, here's our expenses. Here's where our portfolio stands today, here are the assumptions that we're making. Here's our growth trajectory. Here are some, you know, nuances we want to point out, and we let people like poke holes in our plan, because we're in a room full of   Michael: Vulnerable that is awesome.   Diania: So yeah, it was, it was great. For me, because, you know, I'm figuring all this stuff out on my own reading about stuff. And to be able to, like be in a room of other really smart people, many of which, who have already reached financial independence. And for them to be like, No, you're good. Like, do you don't need to stress about tax loss harvesting, you're fine. You know, like that, that was really reassuring to me to have. So it was almost like, I was always a good student, you know. So it feels like I got the good star that a plus for my teacher.   But what was fascinating about that breakout session is that two of the case studies, were these two guys, that made half my income, literally half my income, but they were on this fast track to FI they were going to reach it and half of my time, because of their real estate strategy. So I really do think like real estate is the way to do it the fastest. I think it's obviously more complex, it can be more labor intensive than just, you know, buying index funds. And, you know, you don't have to plunge a toilet on an index fund in the middle of the night. You know, you don't have to deal with tenants and all that stuff. So I definitely think that index funds strategy is easier. But it I think it is faster if you go with real estate.   Michael: Yeah. And just for everyone listening, how much did we pay you for that plug for real estate?   Diania: Nothing. I mean, it's just me watching all of my friends killing it. And like trying to work up the courage to do it myself.   Michael: Yeah, come on over. We I know a great place for you, we can get you all squared away. Because I couldn't agree more I think it you hit the nail on the head that anybody can go pick a stock and just put their money into it. And they can make money, they can lose money. I think real estate is more complicated. Coach Tom and I want to do their coaches at the Academy just put out a YouTube video talking about how passive real estate investing really is?   And the answer is, it's not for most of us, it's not here to go buy property it's not. So you really need to go learn about what's involved, versus kind of just throwing mud at the wall and seeing what sticks in terms of stock picking. Or you get this collective, you know, collective safety when you're buying the entire market. So I love that. I love that data. This has been so awesome. Thank you so much for hanging out with me. Do you have any final parting wisdom for everybody who's listening?   Diania: Oh, man, I feel like I gave you all my gems, all of my sound bites.   Michael: So then let's go back and re listen to this episode if you're listening at home, and where can people find out more about you and the economy conference?   Diania: Yeah, so if you go to economeconference.com. And that's econome with an ME at the end, not an MY, because if you look at the spelling of my name, I really appreciate misspelled words.   Economy conference.com, you can read about all our speakers, you can see all the programming we have planned. You can buy tickets there. Again, it's happening in just a month. So it's right around the corner at the University of Cincinnati. And then you can also subscribe to Optimal Finance Daily, which is the daily podcast that I host and you can allow me to serenade you with the sweet sounds of personal finance knowledge.   Michael: Fantastic. Well, thank you again. I definitely look forward to seeing you again. And I will talk to you soon.   Diania: Awesome. Thanks so much, Michael.   Michael: Thanks and talk to you soon. All righty, everybody, that was our episode a big big, big thank you to Diana that was so much fun. One of one of the most fun episodes I think we've recorded in a long time. So a big thank you to her again. There are so many nuggets of wisdom, pearls of joy of gold, whatever the expression is, so definitely go back and give that episode another listen to again, thanks so much for listening. And as always, we look forward to seeing you on the next one. Happy investing