How to Effectively Market Your Real Estate With Kori Covrigaru

Kori Covrigaru from PlanOmatic joins us today to share the importance of marketing your properties properly. Whether you are selling or renting your place out, things like professional, photos, 3D tours and a basic floor plan can diminish the time your listing is on the market, get you over market rent and mitigate the costs of vacancy. https://www.planomatic.com/who-we-serve/single-family-rental/ --- Transcript Before we jump into the episode, here's a quick disclaimer about our content. The remote real estate investor podcast is for informational purposes only, and isnot intended as investment advice. The views, opinions and strategies of both the hosts and the guests are their own and should not be considered as guidance from Roofstock. Make sure to always run your own numbers, make your own independent decisions and seek investment advice from licensed professionals.   Tom: Greetings, and welcome to The Remote Real Estate Investor. On this episode, I'm joined with   Michael: Michael album,   Tom: And today we're going to be interviewing Kori Covrigaru who is the co founder and CEO of PlanOmatic. PlanOMatic is the biggest in fastest full service property insights and marketing service provider to the single family rental space. Alright, let's do it.   Kori, welcome to the podcast.   Kori Thank you. Thanks, Thomas. Good to be here. I'm excited. I've been pumped for a while.   Tom: Awesome, awesome. So before we get into PlanOmatic, and cool stuff that you're working on there, let's learn a little bit about yourself.   Kori: I grew up in Ann Arbor, Michigan, shout out to the Huron River Rats.   Tom: Is that a triple A baseball team there?   Kori: Yeah, may as well have been. My business partner was on the baseball team. So I'll have to ask him but know that for some reason they thought it was cool. We have the Ann Arbor Pioneers and we have the Anne Arbor Huron River Rats. So Ann Arbor doesn't have its priorities straight when it comes to mascot.   Tom: River rats must be really popular because in Sacramento there's the like they have a of a river rat team anyways…   Michael: Isn’t it the River Cats? I don't think it’s the river rats.   Kori: So we got to get the river rats and the river cats together.   Tom: Wonderful. That's wherre you grew up.   Kori: Yeah, I grew up in Anne Arbor two brothers. So we were three boys growing up. Went to actually played soccer at SUNY Buffalo for a year transferred to Western for a number of reasons. Western Michigan that is and then kind of migrated around the country. As we founded PlantOmatic ended up in Colorado, which is where I'm now married to my brilliant beautiful wife, Taryn and we have two boys six and three jack and Max. I'm the CEO here at PlanOmatic. So that takes up the majority of my time. Otherwise, I like to be outdoors. You know, like to cycle mountain bike camp, snowboard, ski, you name it. I'm pretty outdoors guy. Like spend time with the family travel. I speak two languages. I speak Hebrew fluently. I have my parents to thank for that. And yeah, that's that's me in a nutshell.   Very cool. And before planOmatic was that like pretty much started right out of college or what? What led you before PlanOmatic? And then we'll talk a little bit more about kinematic specifically.   Kori: Sure. Yeah. So in in college, I had been connected with a friend of a friend of a relative to help out with a photo and floorplan company, and did that for a while helped them out and decided to license that software and build our own company planOmatic plan medic was born we each put 500 to three partners put $500 in the bank each. And that's where we are today. Still wholly owned, full bootstrapped company. But at some point, yeah, we went off on our own and expanded the company from starting in Florida to California and then kind of everywhere in between. But that's that's what we've been doing. I never really had a resume. I understand that the marketing teams working on a one page resume for me. So that'll be a first never had to put one of those together. That was my goal. But apparently it's something that I need.   So yeah, it's not like I'm not a career guy wasn't. Didn't come from all the big consulting companies and start a company just kind of knew I wanted to be an entrepreneur early on, I knew that I wasn't employable. That was a big key. I knew that. Anyone, at least long term? Probably my dad, too. Thanks for that one. But, but yeah, we've been having a lot of fun ever since.   Tom: That's awesome. And how would you describe the problem that planet Matic is solving? for addressing?   Kori: That's a great question. The problem that planimetric is solving, the way I would summarize that is we are constantly solving problems that are two to three years into the future, right? I guess that's kind of where you want to be. If you're solving problems for today, someone else has probably already thought about it. So the way we see it, we kind of look and see, okay, what's the norm in the industry today? Where's that headed? Because it's not hard to predict. We have a whole lot of other industries around us that kind of for foreshadow what we're going to experience here in real estate because we're typically a little bit behind things are moving very quickly right now, but still at a slow pace. So So that's kind of our methodology. You know, the problems that we solve are generally on the marketing side. How do you market a property for lease appropriately, with a good return on investment on line. As we know, everybody starts online, everybody pretty much ends on line now to right I mean, or at least that's where we're headed.   And then on the property insight side, it's really it's to give a picture of perspective of what that property or portfolio properties look like. What is it going to take to renovate? What is it going to take to, to, to, you know, understand the layout of the property from before and without being there? Essentially, what is the whole property portfolio look like? Realistically?   Tom: So, Kori in in starting plan ematic, you guys jumped right into it was, was it single family rental space are what was the initial kind of customer base, I'd love to hear how that has evolved.   Kori: Yeah, our initial so so my business partner and I, we finished at Western Michigan, and we went straight up to Grand Rapids. And we were marketing to real estate agents at the time, you know, 2004 2005, the way to market a property online, which was barely on online, right, like 2005. I think that's when Zillow started, or right around there. They were taking pictures with their own digital cameras, we didn't even have iPhones, right? So agents were kind of getting by with taking their own pictures. And then we came along, you know, we were this like, innovative young company that shows up to the property, takes professional photos, right with a professional wedding lens, creates a floor plan on site, and then provides an interactive floor plan presentation that's available online, and we used to make CD ROMs, right, I remember being up all night, printing out CD ROMs with agent and broker, you know, photos on the front and a picture of the house.   I actually remember one night we were up all night, because we had I think we had burned like 30, you know, CD ROMs that were incorrect. And we had to redo them also, we were we were competing really with with photography that agents were taking on their own. And what's ironic about that is that the SFR industry is so new, that we're actually doing the same suite, we're seeing the same thing now, where owners or owner operators even are taking their own photos and thinking that's sufficient to market the properties online. And as time will will go on, they'll see that there won't be any more amateur photography, to lease a property is just going to be a thing of the past. And in fact, we'll start to see far more properties and in fact, all properties with some sort of 3d scan here in the near future. And so going forward it's a similar to similar competitors is self service.   Michael: That always cracks me up when looking for like housing on Craigslist when I was back in college looking for something to rent or looking at for sale stuff even on on Zillow. And you see like the picture of the bathroom and in the mirror is like someone's arm and then a flash of the camera. It's like, Oh man, I know these people are amateurs, like there's got to be a better way to do this.   Kori: Yeah, a lot of people think that because maybe the property isn't as expensive or doesn't lease for as high. I mean, you still want to give a good impression that property someone's gonna live there, you know, we Our mission is to show 1 million people their home for the first time, right. And so every time someone looks at a property online, they're looking at their potential next time and somebody is looking at their next home online, and you want to make sure that you're giving that great first impression, and that you're also making sure that your portfolio or your properties are standing out, as opposed to other ones that may have a close up of a kitchen that's all dark. Like that's not gonna fly.   You know, I mean, I've experienced buying homes, we just started a smallest so far find me and a few business partners. And I see the pain live. I mean, I'm skipping properties that have poor photos, regardless of what they might look like. And that's that's really a shame. You know, you don't want people to skip over your properties, because you haven't made the effort to get some professional photos.   Tom: Oh, yeah.I mean, that first impression is just so key. What do you what would you say some of the biggest mistakes of like, people taking their own photos, the most common things you could like, kind of ascribe it to something specific?   Kori: Yeah, I mean, leaving the toilet seat up in the bathroom is like it's like a cardinal sin for real estate photography. Yeah, yeah, you got magnets, like, yeah, if you're gonna do it on your own, like, take the magnets off the fridge. Nobody wants to see Jessie and Susie. Right? That's not going to help you get out a renter, or sell the property. If you've got a piano like open that piano. These are all things that I've learned 15-16 years ago.   You know, it's important to get a good perspective of the room use, you typically don't want to take a photo that's, that's just like, up and down, because it'll look like hallway. Unless you're an architectural photographer. And you know, you're worried about the composition, stuff like that. That's a whole different story. But you really want to get in the corner and give a good perspective of the home. And what we're finding is is even is just as important, is making sure that you actually just have a two dimensional floorplan like people can look at photos all day long. But if you have a floor plan, they're guaranteed to spend more time on that property because they can start to see and relate. Okay, the kitchens over there, the living rooms over there. We may want we can knock this wall down. Let's see how much open space we can create. I mean, a floor plan is key.   It's really key and it's underutilized. tremendously by even the institutional investors in the big companies that have big portfolios, you'd be surprised how they would be graded by us on their marketing. For that portfolio. It's really it's amazing to see,   Michael: Kory, I think that's a great point on the 2d floor plan, is planOmatic doing much in the 3d space. I forget what those cameras are called. But I think those are pretty Yeah, I see those a lot more comment on those things now as well.   Tom: Matterport, right, is   matterport. Yeah, they're, they're a great partner for us. And we utilize their software. So we're actually not software providers, I mean, we have our software for workflow efficiencies and data transmission API's to our system ordering, asset delivery, and so forth. But as far as 3d goes there, there are a few players out there and matterport to us has been the the premier, I'm told to not say the Cadillac of things until to say this Tesla of things now. So there's a test love of but but with metaphor, yeah, we outfitted our entire network with Rico 3d cameras, so that we're actually 3d agnostic, it doesn't matter if it's matterport Zillow, another company, we can, we can get out there and create it. And so we're finding a lot of adoption there, it's still not as quick as you might think. So there's still opportunity to be sort of, you know, first into market with this technology, but we're seeing it grow fairly rapidly.   And those 3d scans typically can export a floorplan, so you're getting the best of both worlds, like you can send us out to a property, we can do a condition report to assess the condition of the property to a 3d scan, so you can inspect it, you can use that 3d scan later for marketing the property, and we can create a floor plan and for their like, we may as well take photos, right, so you're kind of getting the whole package and ready to go ready to go to market even before you close through due diligence. And that's that's been a huge upside to 3d lately, is kind of being able to use it on Ops, as well as for marketing purposes.   Tom: Totally. There's, there's a lot of technology that I've heard of in the space. And I'd love to hear your opinion as well as maybe some ones that I haven't heard of. So one of them is digital staging. So like adding in I don't know, like a couch when there's not a love your will work through a list. But we'll start we'll start with this one is love to hear your your thoughts on it. And yeah,   Kori: Digital staging for the SFR industry. It's not cheap tech, it's out there. It's It's cool, but I just don't necessarily see a huge return on investment. If they do it really well, you can't even tell. Right? We can virtually stage 2d images, and that's no big deal. Now they can virtually stage 3d scans and models. I think that really right now as it should probably be reserved for higher end, maybe commercial space, or the ultra high end, you know, home for sale, potentially, which really shouldn't be vacant, it should be staged at the property. So I think it's really cool tech, there may be a use case for here in the future. Not for SFR not Class A, B and C right now i don't i don't see it, we need to kind of put the don't put the cart before the horse or whatever that saying is right.   Like, let's get professional photos out there people, right, let's make sure that we're presenting our property in a decent manner. Let's get a 2d floor plan so they can see, right, the perspective let's maybe get a 3d model. So it stands out so they can walk through the property. You know, virtually staging that 3d scan, it's To me, it's a little over the top right now.   Tom: I agree. I think it's the technology is like not quite there yet. Because I don't know you like look at it, it is something that looks a little off like it's Yeah,   Kori: Just like any it can be done really, really, really well. And you'll pay for that, or it can be done sort of, you know, half assed, or whatever. And you can tell that, I don't know. But hey, you know, for whoever's out there doing it, like, that is the future, right? Like, eventually that will be standard practice. It'll hopefully be automated. And and so that, but then here's the thing, how scalable is it? Right? How scalable Is it because your goal is to scale your portfolio as quickly as possible, but as efficiently as possible, right? Can you really scale that quickly? and automate it? Not right now, Not yet.   Michael: Yeah, I agree. I don't think it's it's quite there yet. I agree. Tom, I see those photos. And you can tell they're, they're digitally stage. The one place where this is really interesting is actually I'm doing a flip a really high end flip out in Portugal. And so it's a bit the, the way that the properties are sold there is a bit different and that the agent doesn't cover the cost of staging. Like is, I think a bit more common here in the States. And so I looked into just renting property to stage and it was like 10,000 euros, or I found a digital stager for like, 1800 euros. So I was like, nice, let's do that. And the photos blew my mind. I had to like call them because I thought that they had moved furniture and it was so well done. And so I posted pictures and stuff and I got people hitting me up saying who did this? This is unbelievable. But I think that's kind of the exception and not the rule.   Kori: Well, I mean, and you said it yourself right high end flip. I mean absolutely. No doubt you should be pulling all the stops. pulling all the latest cutting edge marketing? I mean, maybe it's not even a public listing, who knows you won't be able to blow people's socks off. And that,s, there's a great use case for that   Tom: Next piece of photography technology. I'd love your impact input on drone shots.   Kori: Yeah. drone shots. So where where are we seeing? Where are we seeing drone shots, we're seeing them a in in the property insight space. Drones are helping assess roof, you know, roof conditions. And that helps a lot in the due diligence process, we've been seeing a lot of that, we've also been seeing drone shots for communities, I mean, bill for rent is all the rage right now, because inventory is so low, though those builders and those investors and the managers want to see the progress of the community, and there's no better way to see that than with drone shots.   So we're seeing a lot of drones, aerial photography, for property insights, we're not seeing a whole lot of drone photography, on the single family rental space for traditional traditional markets, we're so we also operate on the real estate side for for sale, we work with agents, and brokers and so forth. And we see a lot of aerial photography on the coasts, right, or in the mountains where there's a lot of space, those are not things you have in the SFR industry right now at least not, you know, in mass. So we're not seeing a whole lot of drone photography for individual properties. Again, people, let's get professional photos of the inside of the house, right? Like that's where we need to start. Those are great technologies, great use cases.   I mean, eventually, what we'll see is we'll see people sending drones to a property to get a condition report and to video, the property and there'll be autonomous, they'll just, you know, or, or we'll show up, we'll let the drone go. And it'll go do its thing, that there's a use case, it's not, it's not inexpensive. And it's not the place where it can be scalable yet, but that is definitely the future of capturing property insights, data and marketing services. So I believe that there's a future for drones. I just don't think there's a use case for marketing a specific property roofs condition assessment. Absolutely. Absolutely.   Tom: Love it. And I guess the last one, I was gonna say isn't really much technology. And I think it's kind of the same answer as drone is talking just to my another agent locally is doing like sunset photography is like a big thing. Just the with the art. That makes sense. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Probably. Yeah, Twilight photography is that much, it's something that you guys do a lot are probably more on the the direct to sale,   Kori: We do more of that under direct sale, it definitely makes your property stand out. What we can actually do and with our partners is we can virtually Create Virtual Twilight photography at a very reasonable cost. And you know, that's, that's also underutilized. But it is here at a point where the price makes sense. So I don't have the exact statistics right now they're out there, though. But properties that have a thumbnail with with a twilight photo, get more clicks, they get more views, and people spend more time on them. So I would I would promote that service of virtual dusk, photography, it's you know, you can tell you can't tell what, you know, what's the difference, right potential buyers, or potential renters go to look at it. What's important is that it's different. And they click on it, why they click on it, it doesn't matter if they say, Oh, this looks fake. You know, that's not a big deal, or is it fake? Like the question and that's okay, you just want something to differentiate. And I'm a firm believer that that can really make a difference. In fact, on our real estate direct side, with most of our packages, we include a virtual Twilight photo.   Tom: Those are my technology. How about other, I'm sure I'm missing some, but I'd love to hear other pieces of technology. That is how advanced we'll go into due diligence in a minute, but I guess for now, just specifically on the marketing aspects, and you can include SFR SFR, or, you know, direct to sell or not direct to sell but you know, I'm saying yeah.   Kori: So other technologies…. I mean, matter ports a big one for us, right? We work with matter port a lot. Zillow is also a 3d provider and, and there's a definitely use case there are a lot of our SFR institutional clients as well as midsize clients. They rely heavily on Zillow. And so having that Zillow 3d home tour will help other technologies I mean, we work now on the appraisal side as well. And so we're seeing the bifurcation of appraisal. So kind of splitting out of the   Tom: ….desktop is is a desktop appraisal?   Kori: Desktop survey. So right, yeah, exactly. Right. Yeah. So we're able to provide scans. And, and then people can appraise the property. So we're kind of the boots on the ground extension of their team to be able to provide that data for them. And it's not just the scan. It's also the data that's included in it. And so we're seeing a lot of change, rapid change in that space right now as well.   Tom: Huge cost saving versus sending a traditional where you could have a company like planet Matic just be the logistics and get out there and Yep, and do the capture.   Kori: It's a volume game, right?   Tom: That's right. That's awesome. How about specifically technology around the due diligence? How can this help investors?   Kori: So what we've done is well, you know, COVID hit right and everybody's scrambling like to be pivot to be this With that, like we've got contractors all over the country, we call them plan on tax and they're they're ready to be dispatched. Right? Like they need work. So they'll mask up, they'll wash hands, the whole thing, but what can we get out there to help our clients with and what we realized is planet Matic really was coming into the game or on the seventh or eighth inning, right? Like, there was an offer made and the property. They had an inspection, they they went through due diligence, financing, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And we come in after the property's been purchased, renovated, and it's ready for lease.   What we found was that our clients are having a hard time acquiring at a fast speed. That's the whole name of the game, and so far is how quickly can you build up your portfolio? How quickly can you scale it? Can you keep it efficient? And what we've done is, in 2020, we sat around said, what else can our team? Do we have boots on the ground everywhere? Can we put signs up? Can we put lock boxes in Can we put smart technology in these homes, and what we landed on was that the process for for the due diligence and for, you know, build for rent and seeing if if these properties are ready to lease is really outdated, we were having clients that were sending people in cars from one state to another just to look at properties potentially, to buy. And what we found was we were able to get out to these properties in 24 hours and provide the data back to the client 24 hours.   And when we go out to a property and due diligence, we can do a number of things. But what our clients really love is the property condition report first and foremost. And we have a light, standard advanced version of that. So just depends how many questions do you need asked, but there are things like what does the property smell like? Right, like how many doors and windows are there and then we're able to provide measurements with the 3d along with that property condition report that helped them scope out renovations help them figure out if it's if it's if it's a property that meets their portfolio standards, but most importantly, then they're able to utilize those 3d scans and potentially that floor plan to pre market and then market that property when it is ready for lease. So it's like we can get out there and get the whole package done. And it's really hands off for the individual, you know, homeowner or landlord or the institutional company or the mid sized company, it really helps them scale their operation. So they don't have to worry about that they have to worry about we need to acquire these properties, we need to get them ready for for lease and then we need to manage these properties. And that's really what these property management companies and owner operators really should be focused on.   Michael: No, this is awesome. Kory, I'm curious to know, in thinking about who your ideal client is, if I'm an individual owner, I'm looking at getting a property leased up or prepped for sale. You know, how should I be thinking about cost? And how should I be thinking about what services planOmatic could help me secure?   Kori: Well, I'm gonna invite you into our next exact meeting, because we're trying to figure out our ideal client profile as well. So maybe, maybe you can help us out there. But what we found is we so we work with a number of of well established institutional owner operators, but they weren't, they weren't that way when we started working with them. And we were in this game really early, we stumbled across, it was luck. I have a friend that tells me luck favors the prepared that I believe that's true. So you know, where we specialize is helping those small to mid sized companies that really want to get in to the SFR space, whether its management or owner operator, and help them scale their portfolios really high. I mean, does it make sense for a one off landlord potentially looking to get into the space to do this?   What I would recommend to someone who's new in the space is yes, get your hands dirty, right? Like, it might make sense to go there and take a look at it. If you are just getting into this and you've got one property, maybe you're buying a portfolio for properties, right? We just started Nestle fire fund a few buddies of mine. And we bought for four properties in Birmingham, we're closing on on July 23. We did utilize our services and it made sense. But we're really geared towards established companies that are kind of trying to get to that next level, whatever it may be, whether they're small want to get to medium, medium, large, large, super large institutional, that's where we help with the efficiency of their operation really dive in.   We've got a product called PlanOLabs. And we really dive into what what the operation looks like we build process maps, we recommend API integrations to help streamline the ordering and the asset delivery process. We take a look at how and where are you marketing your properties, and we actually perform studies is 3d making an impact on your properties, his professional photography or floor plans making an impact? And so you know, in in kind of talking out loud right now, I'm finding that yeah, it's the small, they want to get bigger. It's the medium they want to get bigger because we've seen it, we've seen our clients start small and grow to 10s of 1000s properties, you know, under management, and that's what that's where we like, you know, we exist to help our clients win. That's that's our purpose, and so seeing clients get to a next level. That's, that's what brings us here. You know, it helps us grow, right. And that's really fun for us too. But we really focus on the client and providing value so that our clients can scale efficiently.   Michael: That's great.   Tom: I'd love to hear about your SFR fund. You mentioned it. So have you guys always invested as well?   Kori: My first investment property was actually with my business partner out of college, we did buy a three unit rental in Grand Rapids, Michigan. That was two things that was the timing was perfect. I think that was 2005 or six.   Tom: Was this like a house hack where you guys were living in one of the units or   Kori: Yeah, we were living in one of the units we had some really interesting tenants we I remember my business partner showed up like Cheez Whiz on the shorts. In the closing, it was one of those It was a five year arm it was like it was it was perfect. And and we made it through right, because for some reason we we went on location and location doesn't take a dive as much and the rental market stayed strong. And you were able to continue to make our payments because of the rental income that we had. And so that was the first property we sold it probably six years later.   Since then, actually, when I moved to Boulder, I bought a place same thing lived there for a while as a condo then moved out, had tenants in there for a while, then I bought with my wife, we bought our first home, we moved to a bigger home and kept that home, right. And so it kind of like trickled along, you know, knew knew the process felt like I really had to know the process. But also I just believe in real estate as a great asset to hold short and long term. And so, you know, finally we said, hey, we've got all these intros, we know all these clients, we we have tools ourselves that will help us scale a portfolio. Let's start something and so we got six guys together. And in our first market is Birmingham. And we're kind of seeing that process live right now. It's so eye opening and while to be able to kind of walk in the footsteps of our clients Finally, and understand all the trials and tribulations that come with operating a portfolio. And we're just getting started. So yeah, it's been a lot of fun.   Michael: I'm curious. I mean, that sounds awesome. Have you made or implemented any process changes now being the end user of your own product? Did you recognize any gaps or any hiccups that that users were facing?   Kori: 100% 100% I mean, everything to me is the test, right? So we have someone outside of the businesses kind of handling the administrative stuff and scheduling. And so I said, Hey, here's what I want you to do, I want you to go place an order, pretend like you're a client, and you don't know me and just give me feedback. And and we were able to get such valuable feedback from that experience that we've already made changes to not only our product, but also our workflow and how we go about scheduling these things and notifying our clients about things and even registration on our site. It's it's absolutely invaluable to have people close to you that aren't afraid to give you their true honest opinion. And that know that you know, you're just going to benefit from their feedback. But, you know, it's been amazing to what do you say it's like,   Tom: Eat your own dog food.   Kori: Sure. Yeah, it's been, it's been a while to eat your own dog food in that respect.   Tom: I guess I got one more longer question, then we have some some quick, some fun quickfire. It's kind of like this or that type of questions. But what what's the PlanOmatic,   Kori: We are still so green as an SFR industry that we just see tremendous potential to grow within the industry. PlanOlabs is you know, and I mentioned that earlier PlanetOlabs is really was was born right at the end of the pandemic. And I think that that's really a lot of the future of our business is being able to help with the inner, you know, inside operation of of our clients and be able to walk through their footsteps and help them scale efficiently. And so, you know, again, anywhere from ordering an API integration to a business intelligence dashboard that gives them a perspective of their portfolio, what's happening, where and when doing studies on what types of marketing or due diligence processes work best for that client. even getting down to who does what along the way, in areas of the operation that may not have been updated, because that was just how we've always done things, right. So being able to say, what is it that you don't know you don't know? Maybe we can uncover something that will help you scale more efficiently.   So that's been big and then entering other verticals, eventually, we're sitting tight right now and so far, we love the space. We love the companies that are here. We love the the enthusiasm in conferences and an Iron Man and nrac coming up, coming up. Are you going?   Tom: I'm not we just had a meeting with the we will have a pretty big showing there but I will not be there.   Kori: Okay. All right. So I'll be there. And but we are you know, we are dipping our toe in that appraisal space that I that I did discuss earlier. So bifurcating that process desktop appraisers being able to be the extension of a team and gather the data on site so that people can do their work without having Having to leave their home. And then also getting into the insurance space. You know, that's, that's big for us. But our culture is also really important. I mean, sustainability is really important to us building a work workforce and workplace that, that thrives, that is excited to do what they do that feels a purpose. That's big for us too.   And then also building a workforce that is kind of more like a workforce that we the world that we live in, that's really important to us as well. So it's it's kind of inside out, we we believe that the improvements that we've make, you know, internally within the company definitely reflect outward, but from a product perspective, 3d is is really everything for us right now. Whether it be on the marketing side, or property insights, we're, we're all in.   Yeah, so so what we found is that property leads increased by 25%, with a 3d tour, and days on market, decrease 23%, when you have a 3d tour for that property, as well. So we're seeing tremendous value in 3d in the marketing space. And, of course, the operations.   Michael: Oh, that's so good to know, every owner out there listening to this should go push their property managers when they have properties vacant, to go get 3d pictures and 3d tours? Because I mean, the numbers don't lie.   Kori: Yes, they should. Now they, you know, they may be met with with resistance, because it's not free in that question of who should pay for it right? Should the owner pay for marketing services, or should the property management company pay, and you just mentioned in Portugal, it sounds like the agents aren't paying. Same thing with Australia, it's the homeowner that kind of pays to market their own property. And that's why you see so much better marketing come out of Australia is because the homeowners, like whenever we have an agent that comes to us says, Hey, this is my own property, surprise, they're like ordering everything they can that we offer.   We're gonna come to a time where it's gonna be the standard, or it's just gonna be those better property managers that understand the game and understand how to market properties properly, that are going to utilize it. And ultimately, when I mean, we're working with, with a cutting edge, national property marketing company that just actually got an investment to buy single family homes as well. And, you know, they understand how to market their property to kind of stepping up their game right now and including 3d and every everything they do. So we're starting to see it more as a standard for sure.   Tom: If you do it once on this turn, and you can, you know, use it for the next couple of turns, it's like, absolutely, yeah, as long as there's no like meaningful difference.   Kori: At least a couple years. I mean, you get to a point sometimes where you want to make sure that the carpet that's marketed in the photos is the carpet that's at the property, right. So like, typical lifetime, for a set of good photos, or 3d scan, maybe a couple years. Floor Plans are forever unless you knock down walls, right? So those always come in? Well, well, we see a lot, okay, here's, here's a little tidbit for the individual landlords out there. It's kind of a cheat, it's the property and may not be ready to fully market online yet, because maybe you're in the middle of a turn, maybe you're still renovating, maybe the tenants are still there. But you can pre market that property for lease using one good single primary photo and a floor plan.   And that gets leads and gets people interested, it's almost more mystifying because like people are like, Why is there only one photo that has generated so many hot leads for our clients, and they're able to actually reduce their days in between their vacancy days, by pre marketing that property online. And, and so if we're out there, for due diligence, we can take a single primary photo, right? We can create a floor plan, and we've already got the assets to pre market that property. And it's huge. That's like when we look at days on market, and we do studies, one client versus another. It's always the client that does the floor plans and has that single primary, that's pre marketing that kills it for days on market kills it like, like the least amount of days on market.   Tom: Michael, do you have any final questions?   Michael: No, that's great. I mean, we're gonna get Cory his contact information here at the end here. And I'm going to be reaching out to him because I've got some properties that different property managers to get some 3d floor plans drawn up for.   Tom: Alright, are you ready for some quickfire questions?   Kori: I'm in the hot seat. Let's do it.   Tom: Let's do it. Alright, so this is an either or questions. We got we got 10 of them. And let's do it. So consolidation or diversification?   Kori: Consoliversification.   Tom: Yeah, consoliversification. Trademark. Good. I like it.   High property taxes or high income taxes?   Kori: High income taxes.   Tom: High rent growth or low vacancy?   Kori: High rent growth, because nobody ever ran out of resources to provide a service or just not charging the right price.   Tom: Alright, I like it. Cash Flow or appreciation?   Kori: Cash flow all day. Cash is king.   Tom: Cash is king.  Debt or equity?   Kori: Well, when interest rates are below 3%, I'd say debt. So I'd go with debt right now. I'm personally refiling pulling cash out of my home so that I can To this SFR journey around   Tom: Yeah, me too. Single family or multifamily?   Kori: Single family all day.   Tom: Local or remote investing?   Kori: Remote because you can only get so big if you're local.   Tom: That's a good answer for the remote real estate investor podcast!   Michael: For the show, yeah.   Tom: Turnkey or massive project.   Kori: Turnkey.   Tom: Alright. Yep. final three questions. Unreal estate related. Midnight Oil or early bird worm?   Kori: Early Bird, which for some people might actually be Midnight Oil cuz I'm up about 4:30.   Tom: Yeah, yeah, that is getting after it. Text message or email?   Kori: Email.   Tom: And the last question, olive oil or butter?   Kori: Olive oil.   Tom: You did it You made it through. 4:30am are you getting a workout in is that this part of the routine?   Kori: You know, I get I get I have my coffee, which I am working. But I get quite my own, you know, six and three year old so my wife's also she's early she's out to work out but so I get my work in first and then I do work out. Right around six. So and you know, the key is to get to sleep early somehow.   Tom: For sure. Most definitely. Awesome, Kory. Well, thank you so much any so before we close out? How can people get a hold of planetOmatic? what's the what's the right way to get in touch?   Kori: Yeah, I mean, we you know, our website has all our contact info. But if you're looking to get in touch with me, my email is really easy. It's my first name at planOmatic.com. It's k o r i at planet Matic calm. My direct line is 720-414-2747. And I'm always looking to talk to people to you know, increase my network to just discuss SFR with people who are just getting in already established. I'll be down in IMS. I'll be at nrH C. I'll be at IMS down in Scottsdale in December. So I'm all over the place. You'll see me a lot but you know, anyone should feel free to email me. I'd love to start conversations.   Tom: Awesome. Awesome. Thanks for coming on.   Kori: Yeah, thanks, guys. That was a lot of fun. It was awesome. I've been looking forward to it. You didn't disappoint. So I hope to do it again soon.   Michael: Right, on.   Kori: Thanks, guys. Take care.   Tom: And as always, if you enjoyed this content, take a look at the podcast Subscribe, leave us a rating, all that good stuff. And we also still have a promotion running with Roofstock Academy. If you use the promo code, REMOTEPOD one word you take a discount off the purchase price. And as always, happy investing.   Michael: Happy investing.