How to Retire Early with Cash Flowing Real Estate with Jose Santana

Join use in this episode covering the story of a Stessa power-user. Learn about how Jose Santana began his real estate investing career at 19 years old, the strategies he employs, the tools he uses and how he now generates $20K per month. Jose Santana is a remote real estate investor and an avid Stessa user. If you have questions for him, reach him at [email protected]. --- Transcript Before we jump into the episode, here's a quick disclaimer about our content. The Remote Real Estate Investor podcast is for informational purposes only, and is not intended as investment advice. The views, opinions and strategies of both the hosts and the guests are their own and should not be considered as guidance from roofstock. Make sure to always run your own numbers, make your own independent decisions and seek investment advice from licensed professionals.   Michael: Hey, everyone, welcome to another episode of The Remote Real Estate Investor. I'm Michael Albaum, and today I'm joined by Jose Santana, who is an investor out of Florida and New Orleans. And he's gonna be talking to us today about what his investing journey has looked like the projects he's working on today, and also some tips and tricks for you new investors out there. So let's get into it.   Well, Jose, thank you so much for being here with us today. Really appreciate you taking the time.   Jose: It's pleasure. Thank you. Yeah. And you were telling me before we started recording that you're originally a Florida guy, but you're currently out in New Orleans.   Jose: Well, I grew up in New Orleans, but I've been in Florida for 30 years.   Michael: Okay,   Jose: So I came back. I still have property here.   Michael: Right on and you were working on a flip that you were telling me before we start recording, right?   Jose: Yeah, we've done several flips here. But this one, this last one is 120 year old house. block and a half from Audubon Park. Really nice park block and a half from the Mississippi River. Just a built out of bargeboards. Just an amazing home.   Michael: Oh, that's awesome. I want to I want to come back and get some of the details on that. But before we do, I want to know that your whole real estate career, what's been your best day since becoming a real estate investor?   Jose I've had several, quite a few. I think the best deal I ever did was my my home that I live in. We went to look at a house they wanted 263,000. We were approved for 183,000. It was five acres in an old farmhouse. And we we told them we didn't want we really care about the back two and a half acres. We just wanted to front. So we offer 110 for the front half with the house. And they countered at 125. We were in!  We are still in that house been there 25 years. Great house. Great deal.   Michael: That's awesome. And so what about like your best day as an investor? Can you think of one since becoming one?   Jose: Sure. Sure. Yeah, no, we've had quite a few. This particular house that we're working on now we purchased, it was somebody else's deal. And they they got transferred, they got another job and got transferred. They sold me the contract for 450. And by the time we're done, we'll be able to sell it just under a million dollars.   Michael: Oh, that's incredible. That's incredible.   Jose: That was a good day when we got that one.   Michael: Yeah I bet.   Jose: We’re just trying to close that one.   Michael: Okay, right on. So now let's kind of take you step back. I'm curious to know about your real estate background. How did you get started, you know, walk us back a little bit.   Jose: Well, I bought my first house when I was 19 years old. But we got here from Cuba. I was five years old. My dad and my mom both had elementary school educations. And my mom's a beautician, my dad was a butcher. So you know, they weren't big into real estate, or anything else. But, you know, once they got here, they started buying properties.   So in the first couple of years, my dad bought five houses. And, and throughout my childhood, we grew up painting, plumbing, you know, fixing houses, crawling under houses, taking the trash out, doing all that stuff. So when I was when I was 19, I 18, I went to a real estate seminar. And it was one it was a New Orleans real estate investors Association. So back then they would bring in a bunch of authors over a weekend. And they would talk about their books. And so I bought a book called nothing down. And not just read it, but studied it. And I do that back and forwards it upside down. And my dad about a year, maybe six months, probably later, my dad gave me a lead on the house.   And so I went to look at it and it was destroyed. Somebody started a demo, but that and then left it. And so the the owners picked it up again. And they wanted $50,000 for it at the time was a four Plex. And I I told him Look, I'm gonna talk to my dad, but I don't I don't think this is for me. then a week later, they called me back and they said would you buy for 35?   Michael: That changes things a little bit.   Jose: Yeah, that does change the calculus of it. And so but we couldn't, I couldn't finance it. I mean, there was it was not a condition where bank would touch it. I did a lease option for six months. So I was paid him $200 a month for six months and with the purchase option. And so towards the end, I still had we fixed it in two months. We had to rent it. It was great. But we still had couldn't find a bank that would finance it. And so my mom knew a guy who well my mom was a beautician so she did the hair of a guy of another lady whose son was the president of a bank.   And and so I went to a bar I had the appraisal or I had migraines. Read it everyday called the whole back and I just handed it to him. And he says, okay, we can close this on Wednesday. So Monday, and I'm like, okay, so Monday, Wednesday, it's gonna go to the committee, and you'll get back to me. He's like, nope, we'll close it on Wednesday. So we, we, we bought it for 35. But we actually financed it for 55. Because the appraisal was 104 when we finished, and this is back 1985 or so 84. So my first first loan was 15.6%. interest,   Michael: Holy smokes.   Jose: That's what people say, you can't get worse. Yeah, that's a good, yes. But you can make it work even from that if you buy it, right. And that's what my dad always taught me says, If you buy it, right, you'll make money no matter what. So we keep our we keep our costs low at the beginning, and you know, it can it can make up for a lot of errors along the way.   Michael: Yes, it can. And that's something I always tell people, especially on smaller loan balances is don't go look into split hairs on four and a half interest, four and a half percent interest versus 5% or 4%. On a small enough loan balance, it's, it's negligible. And of course, less is better, but don't go killing yourself trying to get the absolute best rate on that size loan amount.   Jose: Yeah, well, 15%, we'll get your attention to   Michael: When its 15 and four, yeah, I go claw on that   Jose: So it took a few more years until the market got a balanced up before we could buy a couple more. But really, you know, it's about at that point, I was buying about a house every five years or so, a couple we kept a couple we still have. And then you know, it got to where we're buying one every year. And oh, why every two years. And when every year. And now we're buying about three a year. So today, I've got 15 properties. With a couple more in the hopper that we're trying to buy 17 units, couple of them are duplexes, most of them are single family homes that we can rent. Now, good positive cash flow on them. We only we only have mortgages on about a third of them.   So the rest of them are free and clear, which really helps that because last year, I was an executive with a furniture company, big Furniture Company probably heard of. And so I ran a third of the world for him, I did all their part of their international business in Latin America. Wow. And, and so after COVID, those jobs were away. And most people were, you know, scrambling to find another job. I just, you know, for me, I just transitioned from buying and holding to buying and starting to do flips now. So this is our third flip in six months that we're doing now.   Michael: That's awesome. And when you say we Is there a team involved that you're working with my wife, and I think   Jose: My wife, yeah, they call her the project manager, that's great. because she'll come in and say, you know, that door shouldn't be there. And I'll give her 50 reasons why it should be there. And then as soon as she leaves, you know, tell somebody, you know, give her the door. Thanks.   Michael: That's great.   Jose: You know, women buy property, so you have to listen to him. She does a she's got a better eye for that stuff that I do.   Michael: I'm right there with you. I'm right there with you, man. So just to kind of, cuz I mean, you glossed over it. But I just want to touch back on that first deal you ever did. So just to make sure I heard you right, it was partially demolished, it was a four unit, you bought it and fixed it up in two months. But you did that via lease option. So that way, you can start generating positive cash flow, really before you had much of a mortgage payment.   Jose: Yeah, we had see the payment on it was about $840 a month, somewhere around there. We rented the top two apartments for $800 each, now the back apartment for 750. And then I use the front part as an office because I'd started a construction business at the time. So I was making $1500 on it. And you know, before we even had a note, my my rent was only $200 a month for six months on it. And it cost us about $10,000 to fix it at the time, which is all I had in the bank. It was nice when we close the house. Each of the owners walked away with about 15,000 after their cost. And I walked away with a check for 16,000   Michael: Holy smokes,   Jose: I got all my money back plus a little bit.   Michael: That's incredible. So I mean, you're really you really combined a lot of different strategies at the time. Did you know what you were doing at the time? Or did you did it kind of fall into your lap?   Jose: Well, I can tell you, I went to a seminar. I went to a weekend seminar, I heard a lot of different strategies. And then I bought a book on it and and so the book was I mean, it was called nothing down I think was Robert Allen was the and I studied it. I mean I really I really did. I read it a few times. And so it was all just each chapter was a different strategy. So you know, I was I not that I that I kind of thought that I knew exactly what I was doing. But I had a pretty good idea. I had a good roadmap of where I needed to be.   So you know, it's it wasn't a shock at the end when we when we got to the end result. The thing that shocked me was walking away with a $16,000 check. Cuz, you know, I, I had no idea that that was a nice surprise for me I thought I'd get maybe $1,000 back or something. And, you know, back that was my first mortgage I'd ever done. So I really didn't know how the process worked.   Michael: Yeah, well, it's interesting. I mean, I've spoken to a lot of investors, I've been so lucky to do so. Just in my general everyday life and on the show. And I think you're the first person who's used a lease option on the buy side. Normally, when we hear about it, it's on the sell side, if I'm an owner, I'm going to sell a property, I'll use a lease option because it can do a lot of big benefits for you. But you used it on the buy side, and then you kind of did a bur at the same time. So I mean, kudos to you. Yeah, that is really cool.   Jose: Yeah, I like the way they have names for that stuff now like for, right, right, right. Yeah, we, I was just, you know, I was just happy to get in the game. And I was 19. So a lot of the I went to six banks before I could, you know, for we finally found one that that was able to help us out. And, and I know that it wasn't because the deal was bad, because it was already appraised for three times what were what the purchase price was. And so you know, it everything was right, my credit was fine. I had money. So it wasn't, wasn't any of that. It's just that they you know, it was a, you know, I was 19 years old wasn't a great credit risk. So I was nervous.   It can't tell you how much of a relief it was when when we finally did close it. I didn't think we'd actually close it until we actually walked out.   Michael: Yeah, well, you hear a lot of these horror stories about banks kind of pulling people around changing things at the 11th hour. So that kind of stuff happens even to really good credit risk borrowers. So the fact that you were 19. And we're able to close that, again, nicely done. That's awesome.   Jose: Yeah.   Michael: I'm curious Jose, because so many people, I think, have a similar experience that you have a go to a seminar, they read books, they join the Roofstock Academy, they become part of some program to help educate them about real estate, and then they never do anything with it. And I'm curious if you can recall to what was kind of that tipping point for you, between where you decided, now I have enough information to actually go do the thing, as opposed to Well, maybe if I read another book, or maybe one more seminar?   Jose: Yeah. Well, I mean, a lot of people around me at the time had real estate. So my dad had real estate, my uncle's had, you know, run real estate, nobody was living off of it. So nobody made a business out of it. It was just a nice investment to have on the side. And so I had, and like I said, I grew up cleaning in fixing and painting and doing plumbing. And that was a pipe wrench in one hand, you know, hammer this and a paintbrush between my teeth. But you know, for free? Ah, my dad, my dad paid us for room and board.   Michael: But that's why I feel like often parents have kids for the free labor, you know?   Jose: Yeah, my brother has eight of em.   Michael: That's great.   Jose: But But you know, so we had, I had a lot of, you know, it wasn't that I wasn't that I would think that, you know, we just I was just getting information. And sometime down the road, I went to the seminar, because I was already interested in the subject. And, and so once I had, you know, even some information that was positive I was going to do is just looking for the deal. And my dad had just written driven past this properties as this might be a good one for you call them up. It took me about a week to do that, because I was scared. But once I got in there and saw that, I mean, at least the seller took me seriously. And the people helping me fix it took me seriously, I was like, maybe this award? Yeah. And it worked out from there.   Michael: Okay. Well, so I'm curious to know, then what would you say to an investor who's just getting started? who is looking to do you know, get their first deal done, whatever, it's a flip or a buy and hold? Would you say to them,   Jose: Well, what I would say to them is start First of all, so don't be afraid to start but don't also don't jump into something just because it's a purchase. So sometimes you see people bid up properties way beyond what they're worth, just because they want to buy it because this all programmer or you know, or because they you know, they think that somewhere down the line it might be worth more and I've also told people not to buy properties when they you know looked at deals with them and the numbers won't work for you won't make you won't make cash flow if that's what you're trying to do.   So you know, but always look for something if the numbers can make make good sense for you to make some cash flow on it, then purchase it right away. If you don't think that you can you know it don't buy it for value. You know, don't buy it because you think while the markets going up because the market will come down to just when you need it and you don't want to keep you don't want to have to pay a you know, buy an investment property when have to keep putting money into it every month pay a mortgage. Yep. So you know, what I would tell him is start but don't go crazy. You know, just look for something with the numbers work.   Michael: Love that and so Judging by that, tidbit, is it safe to say that you're a cash flow? First investor?   Jose: Yes, yes, definitely. Which helps, you know, it's, uh, for years, you know, as I said, I call my wife, my, my project manager. But for years, it was just one of those little things where she, she didn't really it was my thing, she didn't really get into it too much. I used to tell her that if something if I get hit by a bus tomorrow on the way the funeral home, stop at a real estate and just sell everything, because she wouldn't be able to manage it.   But now she's taking an interest in it. Now she sees actually works, you know, where we make, probably? Well, we make from our properties when $20,000 a month. And, you know, we probably have about a third of that in mortgage payments and the rest of his cash flow. So you know, it's a, it's easier to save up for another one when you have that kind of money coming in.   Michael: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And so I'm curious of your portfolio, did you buy some of it in cash? Or did you aggressively pay off some of those mortgages, talk to us a little bit about how you ended up with only a third of your property's having mortgages?   Jose: Yes, all that. It’s true. So some of it, I know, a few of my purchase. And lately, I've purchased more cash, because we actually have a little bit more cash now than before, though, and then the other ones we've purchased, we've paid off quickly. So like, you know, so a lot of we were probably paid less than $100,000 for the property. And so, since I had a job, and I was making more money on the side, or not on side, I was making more money, this was my side income, that was piling piling that money into paying them off, is if you have a 70 $70,000 mortgage, it doesn't take that long to pay it off and pay it off for five years.   Now. And so, you know, once you get that, and obviously, you've raised the rents as you go along, you create more cash flow, it just kind of helps yourself go faster. So my, I've always wanted to, I didn't, I never trusted a job. And you know, and I've had some really good job, so don't get me wrong, I've worked with some great companies and, and done very well. But no matter how big the company is, I've never moved for a company because I didn't trust him. You know, I've seen people who've moved across the country, brought their kids brought everything changed schools, and then their job gets eliminated.   And, and so real estate's given me a lot of security, because I can, you know, if something happens where a job, my job moves, somewhere else, I was fine staying where I was, because it didn't really change my life. And so not creating a lot of debt. And obviously, when you have less debts, too, and you have less mortgages, then when you go to buy a house, you know, your your down payment is going to be a lot less. Once you get over 10 mortgages, it's over 30% that you have to put in so you have to really think about it before going in where you can do it with 20 or 25%.   And I've got a good mortgage brokers that I work with as well, but but I do everything I can to to increase the cash flow and lower the debt on it. So if the market turns down tomorrow, we have to lower rents. We're still okay.   Michael: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And so, I mean, there's the argument to be said, that it's using leverage is a way to maximize your return from a, from a metric perspective, get your dollars working as hard for you as physically possible. But you're talking about almost the opposite of Hey, my mental well being and stress level is minimized. Because I have maximum cash flow, I don't have to answer to anybody, and terms of a monthly basis to make my mortgage payment, right?   Jose: Yeah, and they both work, right. So if you're going to use leverage, you just need more properties. Because obviously, it's as you're paying a note, then your cash flow is going to be less on that property over time. And so to get to, let's say, $2,000, you may need two properties or three properties. Where is if it's paid off, and you're charging $1500 a month. That's all yours. And it so it's, it's not that I'm opposed to leverage, I'm okay with it. You know, like the property we're doing now, we paid $450,000 for Yeah, that wasn't sitting around. So we use we use the hard money loan for that. And hopefully, we'll be able to pay it off quickly. And, and it actually, and I'm fairly confident this is gonna make us money, you know, all the way around. But it's the first time I use hard money.   So I'm okay with leveraging and using other people's money, but much rather use my own. So you don't have to answer to anybody. It's a lot less stress, and you can go at your own pace.   Michael: Makes total sense. So I'm curious as I mean, you guys have built up an awesome portfolio of really, really nice cash flows. Where are you going? How do you know when you're done or what is done look like for you and your wife? Is there such a thing?   Jose: No. I was at a wedding with my with my wife's family and one of her cousins says that, you know, I told him I retired last last summer I took early retirement my company. He goes so I hear you not working. I've just I work harder now than I did before. I just managed my real estate. He goes Hmm, so you have properties and yeah, how many do you have? He says So at that time was 16 is at 16. He says, so what's your goal? I said, it was 10. So, so they never really, I mean, it was 10. But you just keep going past it, you know, it's not as deals come up.   But like I said, I'm not in a hurry to get, you know, in over my head, I get deals presented to me probably daily. Now, at this point, and you know, people call me every day asking if I want to sell my properties, which, you know, all they're asking for us if you want to give it away to them. Because at the prices, they're going to buy.   Michael: Pennies on the dollar.   Jose: Yeah, exactly. I'm not I'm not desperate to get rid of anything. But, but out, but I'm always nice to them. Because, you know, I've been in sales and sales businesses forever. So I know that, you know, there's a lot of rude people, you know, out there. And so I'm always nice to have a conversation with him. But at the end, I always say, But listen, I don't want I'm really interested in selling any my properties at this time. But if you come across something in the same general area that you think might be interesting, give me a call and have purchased a couple that way.   Michael: Hmm. That's great. I mean, it makes so much sense because the world is you know, this small and those of us who are investing is this small. So it's it's a pretty, it's a pretty tight network, once you start to realize.   Jose: Yeah, and I'd rather have those guys working forward or doing the hard work, right, beating the bushes for me finding a good deal somewhere, and then competing with a very small group of people actually have cash to buy him today.   Michael: Yeah, no, that's great. That's great. Jose, I know that you use Stessa. And I'm curious to get your thoughts on how you've been able to utilize it, whether or not you'd like it, and what some of the features that you think newer investors should be aware of,   Jose: Yeah, I'm Stessa’s biggest fan. Now. And the reason why is because it was so bad before. It's so tough, you know, as my portfolio grew as my business grew, and I was traveling constantly, so I needed something that I could manage it. And so I started, I wasn't happy with anybody that I found out, or professionals that I found. So you know, accountants or, you know, some of the people that are out there that bookkeepers not very good at real estate. And so, you know, you don't want to have to pay somebody and teach them how to do it at the same time. Now,   Michael: Yes.   Jose: So I tried Well, let me try QuickBooks. And I worked. I worked at it for about a year. And it was still I was never confident it was it was always, you know, I felt it every other week, they're sending you classes on QuickBooks, and you need them because it's a huge program. Now, it's so big and so general that it really doesn't, doesn't do much for us.   And so I was on my Facebook, and found an ad for stessa. And I said, Well, let me try it. And I tell you, I was in I was here in New Orleans, actually. And I think the first day I set up, I mean, within an hour, I set up three properties. I was like, This is amazing. And I've used it ever since I mean I don't know if  Stessa was just starting out or not at the time but it really is an amazing program because you can organize your your your business, I can run it pretty much off of my phone, or, or my iPad, you know, you can use it in the field. And when I go to the bank, you know they want a some of the reports are amazing on there.   There's so easy you're doing emailed somebody so likely the the schedule of real estate owned, I love that one. Put an Excel email it in Word day of people like well, you have to put together and it needs this this no problem. I got it within three minutes. They have it in their email. So I mean, it's just it's become a very great tool for me to expand my business because I don't have to worry about you know, I don't have to worry about every time I add a new house, new house or new property, all the bookkeeping and all this I mean, it's all done. It's very, it's geared towards everything that we need. And the advice is amazing. The the the way that they remind you about things is incredible. You know, they tell you, did you get rent from this this month, you can look at all your rents as they come in, everything's tied in there. So it really is a good good program. I everybody had asked me about it and like you have to try this one.   And I just found out by the way, what Stessa means, because now that they started rotating the logo,   Michael: Oh, so now it spells it out.   Jose: Yeah, I didn't care. I just liked it. You could call it anything.   Michael: That's awesome. That's awesome. I'm so glad to hear that Jose, and just for all of our listeners, I have to ask, did we pay you or prompt you with any of those answers?   Jose: No, but you know, I accept any kind of money you want to set and that's his biggest fan earlier.   Michael: That's fantastic. We we just had the, the manager of customer success on on a podcast we recorded last week and we were asking him, you know, or actually we were talking about how It is that stessa is really purpose built for investors by investors. And it sounds like you're really starting to see that. And you've experienced that. And you're using the program.   Jose: Yeah. And I've sent it a couple of suggestions on reports. And then you know, you see them a little bit later, you see him come in there. And, like, my favorite is month to date reports, because at first they didn't have month to date they had year to date. Now, they had to go into the custom dates and all that. So they do listen to what you you know, what the community asked for, when it makes sense, obviously.   Michael: Right, right, right. That podcast we recorded, we actually did a screen share, and he was walking us through, there's a forum, and then people can vote on wishlist items. So if you're listening to this, and you're wanting to say, hey, what things are being talked about, go check out the wish list on the Stessa forum and and throw in your your vote, because they do absolutely listen.   Okay. So as we look to wrap this up today, I'm curious to know, what's one thing that you wish you had known before you started investing in real estate?   Jose: Well, you know, it's, I thought about that quite a bit. And I get asked that every once in a while, and it's not so much what I you know, that I was missing information, because information was out there. And I had a lot of it when I started. But it's not so much what I knew is what I what I wish I had, today, we've got, you know, you can go on the internet and see videos on how to repair things. So you don't have to pay professionals, you know, you've got you got so much information at your fingertips, you've got things that tools like Stessa, you know that that are just out there to help you manage it.   So and you've got auction sites, I love auctions. So you know, you can you can buy any house in any state, pretty much, you know, sitting at your desk, in your pajamas. And so, you know, what I wish that I knew was that, you know, I kind of I enjoyed my journey. And you know, we kind of had a learning curve, but it was fairly quick one, but I think it's more like what I wish I had. And if I would have had all the tools that we have today, I'd have 10 times as many properties today.   Michael: Yeah, yeah, that makes so much sense. So and then as a follow up to that question, what do you envision would make your journey even easier? If you could create something? If you could invent something? What would it be?   Jose: Actually, it would, you know, I, I've thought about that as well, I think that it would be great if I could create a site where people who want to just sell their properties not involve, you know, agents not involved, you know, professionals just just sell their properties outright at a regular amount, you know, at a normal price that's good for investors, because, you know, what happens today is that they call their, their local real estate broker, and then the price goes to whatever Zillow is plus 10. And so it's always, you know, but if you could just go on there and say, Look, I've had this house since 1980. It's been paid off now for the last 20 years. And if somebody would give me, you know, $120,000, for cash, I'll take it today. You know, just one site where you could just post your house on there and sell it right away. I think it would be great for both right, for sellers and for buyers very quickly. If Stessa wants to come up with something like that. I mean,   Michael: Yeah, yeah. Well, have you have you seen? There's pretty much Facebook marketplace groups, or Facebook groups, for every every major Metro? Have you seen listings on there, because I've seen those types of listings on there.   Jose: I haven't seen those types of lists, I've seen listings, but usually they're, you know, they're a lot higher than then even the market. I use Facebook marketplace all the time. In fact, the other day, we were doing a patio in the back of this house with old reclaimed bricks, which are here in New Orleans are $1600 a pallet. So I went on Facebook marketplace, found nicer bricks for $275 for 500 bricks. And I also found one got three truckloads of came up beautiful.   Michael: It's like one of my wife and I favorite website, we furnished almost almost exclusively our entire house with it. It's amazing.   Jose: Yeah, I mean, I wish that the properties there at least, you know, in South Florida, the properties that are you know, just they're expensive. Now, but then on top of that, you know, they have people who want to sell on Facebook, the ones that I've seen are usually agents that are trying to advertise their, their home their open houses. I have, I wish I would get that they would have just regular sale, you know, people who want to sell their houses, right? They just want to sell it quick and move on with minimal paperwork. And one day I'm going to find somebody who's going to site up.   Michael: I was gonna say, you know what we'll do a call out to all the listeners, if there's any developer web developers out there entrepreneurs out there who want to want to create a new site. That's one that's one to do. That's awesome.   Jose, this has been awesome. But before we let you go, I wanted to ask you if people have questions for you wanted to reach out to you regarding deals or anything real estate related, what's the best way for folks to get ahold of you?   Jose: Well, the easiest way is probably just facebook facebook Messenger Jose Santana, Homestead, Florida. My email is JRS0213@gmail. You know, I don't I don't really want them to call me. If they email me or email me or Facebook, that should be fine.   Michael: Perfect, perfect. Well Jose, thank you again for coming on. This is a lot of fun. And I'm sure we'll be in touch soon.   Joes: Yeah, thanks. I enjoyed it.   Michael: Hey, like Alright, take care. Bye bye. Alrighty, everybody that was our episode a big big, big thank you to Jose for coming on the show today. I had a lot of fun chatting with him. I'm sure everyone listening got a ton out of that episode. As always, feel free to leave us a rating or review wherever it is in your podcasts. If you're checking this out on YouTube, feel free to hit the like and subscribe button. It helps the algorithm bring you more content like this. We look forward to seeing on the next one and happy investing.