Quitting the corporate world to find freedom as a real estate investor

Mike DeHaan is an electrical engineer-turned-real estate investor in Spokane, Washington. He began his business in early 2018 with the goal: Everyone begins with to have passive income and fell in love with the process of improving the neighborhoods in his hometown. Since he began, he had been a part of over 60 transactions either through flipping, renting, or assigning the contract. He didn’t come from a Real Estate family. The growth and development of his business have come entirely from self-education through podcasts, books, mentors, and a ton of trial and error. His goal is simple, he wants to be a driving force in the growth and reparation of the Inland Northwest. When he first moved to Spokane in 2009, there was more run-down neighborhoods than thriving ones. Over the past decade that’s changed, but there’s still a lot left to do. In this episode, Mike will share with us his extensive experience in real estate investing, and how he became an engineer to a full-time real estate investor.   Episode Links: https://inwproperties.com/ https://music.amazon.de/podcasts/ef9a0c7d-eb7f-4725-b7b0-72387434d143/collecting-keys---real-estate-investing-podcast? https://collectingkeyspodcast.com/ https://www.instagram.com/mike_invests/ https://mikeinvests.com/ --- Transcript Before we jump into the episode, here's a quick disclaimer about our content. The Remote Real Estate Investor podcast is for informational purposes only, and is not intended as investment advice. The views, opinions and strategies of both the hosts and the guests are their own and should not be considered as guidance from Roofstock. Make sure to always run your own numbers, make your own independent decisions and seek investment advice from licensed professionals.   Michael: What's going on everyone? Welcome to another episode of the Remote Real Estate Investor. I'm Michael Albaum and today I'm joined by Mike DeHaan, who's got a really interesting wholesaling business and he's gonna tell us how he got there and what it is he's doing today. So let's get into it!   Mike, what's going on man, welcome to the show. Thanks so much for taking time to hang out with me, I appreciate it.   Mike: Yeah, absolutely thanks, Michael. Glad you have me on.   Michael: Oh man, my pleasure. We're gonna have a lot of fun today. I know a little bit about your story, your background, but I would love if you could just jump right into it and share with our listeners. who you are, where do you come from? And what is it that you're doing real estate today?   Mike: Yeah, absolutely. So I live in Spokane, Washington, so east side of Washington state, it's kind of the forgotten side of the state up here. Everyone always knows about Seattle, but people never really seem to remember Spokane.   Michael: No love for Spokane.   Mike: No no, man. Like get a little bit of love a little bit of hate, you know, once a year during the basketball tournament because the Gonzaga University's here.   Michael: Oh yeah, if you felt like crap talking.   Mike: Yeah, exactly. Everyone always says we're the, the overrated teams. We haven't won a championship yet, but we usually do okay.   Michael: Good deal…   Mike: But, uh, yeah, so right on Idaho border. Um, I grew up out in Montana and then I moved here to start going to school at GU, I moved out here to go to school at Gonzaga, I kind of went the traditional route when got an electoral engineering degree, you know, parents super proud, got a good degree was very hirable. Going through that process, it never really sort of fit my personality, I guess. But I was sort of, of the of the viewpoint that, you know, once I graduate, I'll find a job that I like, and then I'll sort of create my passion from there.   Michael: Well, the fact the fact Mike, that you and I are sitting here having a conversation means that you shouldn't have been an EE to begin with, so…   Mike: Absolutely, yeah. You don't have to have my head define myself a little bit first, I guess. But yeah, right, right. After college, I went and got a pretty good job out in the Seattle area. I'm working at a consulting company for two years. And then I worked at Boeing for a few years. I really, you know, but Boeing was, was kind of a tough one because it's like a dream job for so many people. And I just hated it, like, from the first day I walked in, I was like, oh, no, what have I done? This is absolutely not what I should be I wish I should be doing.   Michael: What did you hate about it?   Mike: Just like the whole corporate bureaucracy, you know, I realized pretty quickly that I'm not cut out to sort of be a number, and just sort of go through the motions of this giant machine and also inefficiencies right. And all the time through my career in jobs. I'd always had this issue where I would get assigned a, a project or whatever and I would figure out the most efficient way to do it as quickly as I could. And it was always just being, you know, before the before the deadline, right? So I had six weeks, I forgot how to do it in like a week. And then I would be like, can I need something else to do and all the other engineers back, no, that's not how it's supposed to work. You're supposed to take the entire six weeks, you know, so I immediately just wasn't cut out for that. And that was a really big problem. And I was at the consulting company two weeks they sell time. Yeah, you know, so I got me slapped pretty hard. Anyway, fast forward. I left Boeing, I moved back to Spokane to work at the utility here for a year. That was my fourth job, including my college internship in a matter of, I guess, what, four and a half years. And at that point, I was like, alright, this this career path is not for me, I need to do something different. So at the end of 2017, I guess being in 2018, I decided enough is enough and I just quit being an engineer. Everyone thought I was silly. My you know, that was probably the hardest conversation ever had to have in my life was calling my parents to tell them that hey, you know, that fancy degree I got I'm not going to do that anymore.   So yeah, it's funny, everyone I was asked like, what my wife and stuff thought and honestly, she was just like, well, if you're not going to be a miserable prick anymore, I guess it's okay for you to…   Michael: Step into the right direction.   Mike: Exactly. Even though we were losing 70% of our income, you know, it was, was worth it to take the risk. Yes, that was yeah, that was early 2018. I spent the next I guess like four or five months, trying to find myself you know, reading a lot of self-health books, business books, my wife and I travel a little bit. We went down to New Zealand for about three and a half weeks and traveled around and just did some soul searching. I, you know, originally wanted to get into tech sort of dabble in that and realize how huge that bear entry was, the actual development side of it, I was able to sort of grasp but you know, living where I'm at, you know, you being in the Bay Area, you can probably sympathize to how important connections are. And we don't necessarily have those here. And that's why people move to places like the barriers to be around people that are doing that.   So anyway, as a side note, I started getting into passive income and generating wealth. And that's what led me to real estate, which is, is brought me to kind of what I'm doing now as a full time real estate investor.   Michael: So I've been I love your story, it's an I think it's one that a lot of people can, can, can relate to, and that they get into this role that they think is going to be awesome and then it just turns out not to be at all what it is they're looking for. And you tried that, you know, like you said four times, and none of it was working out. So how did you get involved with your first deal, with your first real estate investment?   Mike: Yeah, so, you know, I spent the first little bit when I decided I was going to invest in real estate, I guess, backtrack a little bit, I had a local friend section on my business partner who was dabbling in investing. So that kind of planted the seed. And, you know, I spent the first little while just listening to every podcast, every book, you know, everything BiggerPockets pretty much that I could sort of start with, that's kind of where everyone starts, I feel like and, you know, I was like, okay, cool. So actually did basically just go and start offering on properties. But at same time, I was like, a little bit risk averse, I don't want to do a whole lot of work, like, what can I find that would be easy? And so I found actually, right around the corner, from where I live, there was a new development going on where they were building new construction ranchers. And friend of a friend, I was able to connect with the builder and I basically came into an arrangement of, hey, I'll pay, you know, $200,000 for each of these ranches, owned by two of them, and I was getting the money, I basically liquidated my corporate 401k and I was like, that mean, I paid all the fees and everything. It's funny, in hindsight, it was kind of a rash decision but I was how like, deep down, I was kind of like, I need to separate every part of this coast, this corporate past life that I hated.       Michael: So you're drawing a line in the sand…You're burning the boats.   Mike: Exactly. So I paid massive fees to plot this money. But it was a pretty generous amount since I had been out to get South couple of years, pull that out, use that to buy these two properties. And it's funny, like, in hindsight, in hindsight, when I signed the dotted line, they weren't great investments, right because I kind of had the mortgage payment, and I basically went like: Okay, so the mortgage payments gonna be $1,100 a month on really renting for $1,500 a month. You know, I'm gonna, like, cashflow $14 a month, you know, right. But of course, that's not how it works when you account for vacancy, maintenance, all that sort of stuff.   Michael: Oh, you mean there is other expenses… Mortgage payment. Oh…   Mike: Exactly. But I also looked out too, because I kind of signed up for these properties, I signed documents for them, while they're still being built, they were still holes in the ground and then by the time they actually closed, they were worth about 20- $30,000 more each than I paid for them.   Michael: Wow, that went well…   Mike: I accidentally walked into some equity there. And then, as they, they continued to sort of increase in value over the next little bit, I was able to actually cash out refinance some of that money as well. This helped me rebuild that nest egg. So pure, dumb luck, I'm not gonna lie. But I mean, at the same time, dumb luck comes from taking massive action and that's kind of how I got started, so…   Michael: Totally, okay. And so you learn from the, you know, those two deals, and then went on to do some other stuff, tell us about that.   Mike: Yep, exactly. So I learned from those ones. After that I had kind of had my confidence up a little bit. So I'm like, okay, I'm gonna do like a value add sort of deal now, like you hear starting like the proper first strategy, not the I got lucky with the first strategy. So I went and I bought a fixer duplex. Me and my wife, we fix that up ourselves, cash out, good amount of our money, then that was like the end of 2018. Then going into early 2019. I was like, hey, I need more capital, so I started flipping houses. I didn't have a huge amount of experience and money. So I basically was like, hey, find someone that's experienced, that has money and just basically doesn't want to do any work but doesn't mind telling me what to do… Partnered with a couple that was local here and we flipped a few houses together and would split the profits 50/ 50. So got that going use those profits to buy another property, which is a triplex. And then after that, it started to get more and more difficult to find opportunities, both with the partners I was flipping with and for myself, so I decided, hey, I need to start sourcing my own deals. You know, especially I started to connect with wholesalers and like other people that were marking their own deals, and I was like, you know, they're obviously doing something. There's no reason I can't do that. So at the, I guess, January of 2020 I officially started the business of what I'm doing now, which is a full time off market real estate investment business.   Michael: So good.   Mike: And then, yeah, so that was feeding 2020 survive through COVID, that sort of stuff took us a little bit to get going. But as of right now, we've done… total off market about, about 85/ 86 deals since being a 2020. Also sourced off market and I have nine, nine staff that worked for me, so three of them that are local to the US, and then a handful of virtual staff that handles a lot of our more administrative processes in cold calling, all that sort of stuff.   Michael: So that is amazing, Mike. And so you know, of those 80 deals that you've done, are those all deals that you're doing, or you're taking on the ones that you like, and kind of wholesaling, and outsourcing, you know, passing on to the other ones you don't like?   Mike: Yep, so it's kind of a mix of, you know, keeping the properties that we like as rentals, predominantly a lot of the multifamily as we keep. So our total portfolio now is I think, 43 doors. So that's across, like 20 to 22- 23 properties, the rest of them, we've either been wholesaling or we've been flipping, it really just sort of depends on the scale of the work that's involved in the neighborhoods, and also the needs of the business at the time. You know, sometimes there's one that would be great to flip, but it makes more sense to wholesale them and you know, make half as much money. But that's like a 20 day transactional process instead of a three month transactional process.   Michael: Right, so okay and where is your geographical footprint?   Mike: So we have done predominantly in Spokane, and Spokane area, Eastern Washington in northern Idaho. But we also started doing some stuff remotely last year, just for scale. So last year, we did eight deals that were all over in Knoxville, Tennessee, that we did completely virtual, one flip and seven assignments and those ones, we would, we did all the negotiations and closings, virtual, and we would just work with a local runner on the ground over there to go and verify the conditions and grab photos and all that sort of stuff.       Michael: Awesome, and are you do you have I said on any other markets in the near future?   Mike: Yeah. So that we recently brought on a professional sales manager to start helping us optimize our sales process in our teams. And working with our sales guys just to learn how to do the full sales process themselves, because… How we kind of built it cuz we bootstrapped this whole thing is, you know, we kind of hired and built systems as you know, need arose for them, right. So it wasn't a very holistic process. So we kind of have like a lot of like patchwork things in there, you know, for like, how we run us… around appointments, right, or like how we make offers things like that there wasn't a good cohesive process, it was almost lead by lead, which made it extremely time consuming for people for all of our sales guys. So we're working with him to iron those out and then once we have that process more streamlined, I mean, we should be able to drop in any market that we want and do pretty well.   So yeah, we're looking there, we're looking at we have Knoxville, we're looking at the outskirts of Chicago right now. We're looking at a few places in Ohio, we're looking at a few places in Texas. And really, as long as you're able to find the staff, we have the marketing systems out down and once you have the sale system, if we can find a good sales guy should be pretty much copy and paste. So that's kind of what we're hoping to do this year.   Michael: That's so awesome. Mike what I love about your story is that you've done like so much of all of the things like all the real estate investing things, you started very traditionally a single family than multifamily than flipping then burr you know, now you're wholesaling. What have you found to be the most fun?   Mike: Yeah, so I love I mean, engineering is mine, I love building the marketing system and like solving the strategies of some of the more complex, you know, deals that come through, like the ones that the ones that we come in, get a contract signed, we close it our assignment and goes all smooth, those are awesome, like, you can't complain about easy money. But the ones that I find the most fun are like, okay, so we have a deal that's kind of tight, you know, we got to like work with the seller to solve their needs, you know, that means, you know, helping them find a place to go like working with attorney stuff like that. They're really sort of deep dive into some of these complex deals that are, you know, they require like an investigation, I find those to be really fun, and they're more satisfying when they're completed. Even if you do sometimes make less money, it's just like, it's more interesting.   You know, I…we've started doing a lot of stuff like subject twos or we have one that we're signing, we got sent around today actually, it's a Novation agreement. So basically, we're partnering with the owner of the house to flip the property and then we give him like a baseline sale price. Everything above that will collect his profit.     Michael: Oh my gosh, so cool…   Mike: So we've never done one of those before and ultimately, that came around like he's a rational seller, he's willing to work with us, we were off by about $18,000. On our what we could mat ask what we're willing to pay versus what he was asking and we did the math, and we're like, well, that gap is, you know, still less than what our total loan costs would be. So what if instead, we just like met in the middle, gave him some extra money, we were still close to where we needed to be. And we don't have to go get a hard money loan, we can instead as part within the flip the deal.   So working, strategizing, things like that. And, you know, one of the biggest things we found is that if somebody is willing to sell their property, there's almost always a mutually beneficial arrangement, you just have to work with them to solve their needs. You know, I think that's one of the biggest things that people don't understand or they kind of discount with, you know, off market real estate is it's not a real estate company, honestly, it's a marketing business, people business. And if you're willing to listen and get creative with people, and build that trust, and, you know, just like, think outside the box, there's opportunities that can be found everywhere, that are, you know, oftentimes even more lucrative than just like a cash offer, which is what everyone else shows a look for.   Michael: Totally, totally. Wow, that's so cool. That's so cool. Mike, I want to ask you, because you did something and ran into a problem that almost every real estate investor that I've spoken to, either inside the academy or outside of the academy comes up against, and that's, I'm running out of money, or I've now run out of money. And so you mentioned taking on some business partners, we need to start doing some flipping, but what advice, what recommendations would you give to people that are kind of hitting this wall? Where should they be turning?   Mike: Yes, so if you're brand new, it's gonna be a little different than if you're somebody that's trying to scale. So for when I was brand new, I was able to find that money by finding people that, you know, had more money than they had time. And I basically created the time that they needed, right? And I put in the hustle, and I, you know, did what I would do what needed to be done to do the deals and at the end of the day, there was people with the cash that wanted a more passive income opportunity.   Michael: It sounds so mafio, I did what needed to be done, you know… Whatever it took…   Mike: Off market, sometimes it's like that.   Michael: It's great. Mike: But, uh, yeah, so if you're getting started, I think that's kind of the easiest way to go and especially if you show that you have some level of organization and commitment, like I mean, if you show up in your kind of grungy, and you have literally no expansion of nothing about real estate, you're probably not gonna be able to get that. But if you show up, and you're like, hey, I put a lot of thought into this, I think I can pull this off, this is what we're going to do and you come up with a strategy to somebody with money, they'll give you a shot, you know, so even the guys that work for me, now, they all want to get into flipping their own houses, like cool, you're showing that you can work you're showing hustle for me every single day, you bet that when you want to flip this property, I'm going to be happy to partner with you on it, you know, and you're going to go and you're going to make your money, I'm going to make my money and they're going to be able to get off the ground.   If you're more established, where we've started to get cash. I know a lot of people look at like raising money from private investors, and those sort of things like how funds are, are those arrangements. We haven't necessarily look towards that instead but we've honestly relied on like lines of credit that are leveraged on the properties that we've accumulated. And surprisingly difficult to get those when you're trying to scale a business until it's funny until you kind of get your first one and like once you find the first credit union or bank that's willing to give you a line of credit on your, on your property, the other ones seem to be like, oh, well, you know…   Michael: They gave…   Mike: Mainstreet bank or whatever gave it to you like you must be okay and then they sort of build that way. And that is slightly risky, because they contend technically call the debt and things like that. So I wouldn't use that to buy like an entire property. But it does allow you to bridge the gap with like, you know, hard money loan down payments or renovation costs, things that you're going to have a quicker turn time on. And yeah, those are those are kind of the main methods that we've used, I know other people, other people raise private money, but we just haven't necessarily gone down that route yet.   Michael: Yeah, no, that's great, that's great. And then another question, I get from a lot of the folks I speak with are, how do I figure out what's a fair partnership arrangement or a fair Partnership Agreement? Do you have any thoughts there?   Mike: Yeah. So I think the biggest thing is being explicitly specific about what the roles and conditions are, of your arrangement. So how me and my business partner we've basically divided our roles is: Everything before, like we close on a property that's kind of my world. So I manage the sales team, I manage the marketing, you know, I manage the day to day sort of operations.   Once we close on a property, that's his world, right. So he handles the contractors, he handles the renovations, he handles, you know, make sure the mortgage payments are paid all that sort of stuff, and having that firm agreement and that complete understanding that he's gonna do what I need to do, I'm gonna do what I need to do. It works out very well, because there's never any, you know, head butting, there's never any conflict. And also too, it's, it's allows us to scale very quickly, because we kind of each have our own business distributors, like reliant on each other, right. And so we're not trying to manage two very separate roles. We're not like really double dipping in anything. So that I think, I think that is very, very important and whether, you know, it doesn't have to necessarily a split like that, but whether you know, one partner is the sales guy, one partner is the marketing guy, like, just be super explicit on what that means and just try to stick to your roles as best you can.   Michael: Love it, love it. Totally shifting gears here, Mike, what kind of properties are you targeting for your personal portfolio? Are you doing more flipping? Is it long term buy and hold, is it multifamily? Talk a little bit about that.   Mike: Yeah. So our favorite for holds is like small multifamily, duplexes, triplexes quads. We have some single family stuff. But I mean, the cash flow that you get off of like duplexes, triplexes, and quads you really like, we really prefer those as right now, as opposed to like larger multifamily, just because it's so easy to get financing, and there's so much more liquid. You know, if you have a duplex that you decide you want to sell, it's a lot easier to offload that than like an 18 unit apartment complex.   And, yeah, that's kind of what we're, we're targeting everywhere that we're going right now for our own portfolio. And then the half in terms of like renovations and flips, we're kind of looking at everything, we've, we've flipped everything from mobil homes, to we flipped a seven unit apartment complex, so you know what we'll be willing to take on anything like that but…   Michael: That's awesome, that's awesome. Having done so many different things and start, you know, at different stages in your journey, what do you recommend people get started with? If someone's brand new real estate investing? Like I want to do real estate investing, everyone's talking about it, I have to do this thing, where should I start?   Mike: So I would say if you're really serious about it, honestly, the best thing you could do is find someone that has a business like mine and go work for them.   Michael: Hmm. Are you hiring?   Mike: Oh, well, we are hiring sales guys, we're looking to go into new markets.     Michael: What's the website called Mike?   Mike: Yeah, so like, ehmm to reach out to us? Yeah, if you go to: https://inwproperties.com/ , you can send me a message on there for our business. But uh, yeah, I think that that would be the like, if you're really, really serious that you want to be a professional real estate investor go work for people that are professional real estate investors, you know, ideally in a role where you are getting to be a part of the deals and the negotiations.   You know, I think that big sort of asterix there, when you're talking to people like that, make sure that they are actually walking the walk themselves. Because there's a lot of people that will be looking for cheap labor to kind of do like the, you know, the bottom of the barrel work they don't want to do, but they're not actually having that much success themselves. So you might not have that much knowledge to gain. I know, we are one of our most recent employees, who's our he was our transactions, our transaction coordination, or dispositions. It's like a 23 year old guy and he said, he talked to a handful of different people before he found us. And he's like, yeah, I kind of went in and found out they were only doing like, seven or eight deals a year and that wasn't like going to give them enough chances at bat, sort of like learn what they're doing. But yeah, and I'd say, if you want to be super serious, do that. If you want to be more of a casual investor, and you have a WT that you like, or you have a job that you like, honestly start going to meetups and just meeting people. And not only go to the meetups, meet people, but identify the key players at those meetups and follow up with them on a very regular basis.   You know, and try to bring them value in some way. Because so many people, they go to those meetups, and they never reach out to somebody again, or they never actually try to bring value to any of the people they meet there and then surprise, it doesn't actually lead anything.   Michael: A deal didn't fall in my lap, it sucks...   Mike: Exactly. Yeah, that's what they're thinking, you know, you go and you find that heavy hitter at the real estate meetup and you, you know, call him every once in a while send him attacks, like you know, just try to engage and try to build a friendship, opportunities will come to you at the end of the day. You know, even if you do I'm a little bit crazy in the middle, they're eventually going to warm up to you know, the average person is gonna do that.   Michael: You can wear them down.       Mike: Exactly. Honestly, though.   Michael: Oh, I love it. And I'm like, I agree with you 1,000% like find ways to bring these people value. I think for so many listeners who are just getting started, like, that's sounds like Greek to them and so what are some ideas? Or maybe like speaking for yourself what would you be receptive to if someone came to you as like, hey, I'm new, I'm trying to get started, this is what I'm going to help you with? And what are some actionable steps or some ways that people can actually bring value to some of those heavy hitters?   Mike: Yeah, so it mean, it can be things as large as bringing them a deal, bring them an opportunity. It can be things as small as like making connections, you know, so you like, let's say, you meet with one of these, you know, larger investors, and they're like, oh, you know, I've been, I just had this big, like, roof job. And one of my properties, you know, it was a real pain, whatever and then it's like, okay, so maybe what you do is you go out, and you find them a better alternative for that in the future. And you say, like, hey, I remember you said that you, you really overpay for this roof, you know, I met this guy, um, you know, I talked to this guy, he has a similar, here's a business that could do that, probably for cheaper, right?   Something like that. Or it can be as simple as you know, doing day to day work in one of their transactions if they need it. Like if someone's complaining about a tenant, or you know, somebody who's residing in a property they're working on, maybe offer to do the cash for keys conversation for them, see, if you if you volunteer to go and pay that person to leave for them, and just relieve some of their headache, like anything that you can find that could make their life a little bit easier, especially if they're a full time investor, and there's busy as a full time investors are, they'll remember that, and that will carry a lot more weight than you think it would.   Michael: Totally. No, those are both great suggestions, I love that. I remember hearing um, one of the BiggerPockets podcast, it might have been Brandon Turner, David Green, one of the hosts know, like, if you're trying to get someone help you like, don't go ask them like, oh, what do you need help with?   Because then that means they have to spend their mental capacity thinking of other things that you could do for them, as opposed to you coming to them saying, hey, I heard you had this problem, let me help solve it for you.   Mike: Exactly. I mean, it's a people business, like I said before, you know, the other investors are people too and even when you're finding your own deals, when you're looking to wholesale those deals or pair that, you know, pair them with other investors, listen to what the investors want, I guarantee you'll make more money. If you find the deals that that specific investor wants, you know, and same thing, if you want partnerships, you want to find private lenders, you want to find contractors listen to their needs as a business. Everyone always thinks about money and a lot of times it is but everyone always has a deeper route than just pure money, you know…   Michael: We hope… if they you know, some people, maybe not.   Mike: Yeah, that's true. That's true.   Michael: Mike, this was awesome, man, thank you so much for spending some time with me today. If people want to learn more about you, take advantage of your wholesale business, you know, off market deals, what's the best way they get in touch?   Mike: Me and my business partner, we started our own podcast, I guess about four or five months ago. It's called: Collecting Keys - Real Estate Investing Podcast. It's kind of like a in the weeds sort of podcast about how to be a full time investor and sort of like the ins and outs of running a business like ours. So we get pretty in depth about different marketing strategies, things that have gone right with our business, things have gone wrong with our business. Our most recent episode that we just released, as this one came out was talking about a… oil spill that we had in one of our Airbnbs, or an oil furnace exploded.   Michael: Oh, you're not talking like olive oil?   Mike: No, no, no, no, this is yeah, this is Diesel fuel that flooded one of our properties. You know, so we talked about, like how you deal with that situation, which, you know, you have enough properties that eventually going to happen… So you can go check me out there. You can reach out to us through that website at https://collectingkeyspodcast.com/ . You can also hit me up on Instagram, which is @mike_invests, people feel free to shoot me a DM on there, I love to chat with people. Between those two things, you will get a pretty deep insight into what being a full time investor is actually like without all the fluffy stuff that you necessarily hear everywhere else. Michael: Love it a day in the life.   Mike: Exactly.   Michael: That's great but Mike, thank you again for hanging out with me. I really appreciate you and I'm sure we'll chat soon. Mike: Awesome. Thank you so much, Michael. I Appreciate it.   Michael: Alright, you take care.   Alright, well, that was episode, a big thank you to Mike for coming on. We definitely look forward to having him back on the show to do a deep dive into how to…: behind some of the strategies he talked about in the show today. As always, if you liked the episode, please feel free to leave us a rating or review wherever it is you listen to our podcasts, and we look forward to seeing the next one. Happy investing…