How to Respond to Christian Nationalists

Guest Bios Show Transcript https://youtu.be/5I3m2AAHjAYChristian nationalism has taken over large swaths of the United States. But is this movement really Christian? And is it possible to engage with a Christian nationalist in a disarming way that doesn’t end up in a fight? On this edition of The Roys Report, host Julie Roys engages in a lively dialogue with Caleb Campbell—a one-time skinhead who became a Christian and then a pastor. And for the last 18 years, Caleb has been ministering in Phoenix—a hotbed of Christian nationalist fervor. Caleb shares candidly how Christian nationalism divided his church and left him so wounded, he had to take a months-long sabbatical. But he says God used this experience to soften his heart and motivate him to reach those ensnared by a powerful, growing movement. Drawing from his own experience leading congregants at Desert Springs Bible Church in Phoenix—and his just-published book, Disarming Leviathan: Loving Your Christian Nationalist Neighbor—Caleb provides a pastor’s primer on Christian nationalism. How do you define this ideology? What are the concerns and potential harms, from both a pastoral and constitutional perspective? And what are some conversational approaches to disarm people who may be ensnared by it? During a contentious election year, this topic is a minefield—with critics waiting to pounce. This thoughtful and compassionate dialogue will help you navigate this minefield and love those with whom you disagree. Guests Caleb Campbell Caleb Campbell has been a pastor at Desert Springs Bible Church in Phoenix, Arizona, since 2006 and lead pastor since 2015. He is a doctoral student at Fuller Theological Seminary and a graduate of Phoenix Seminary. He serves as regional director for the Surge Network, an equipping and church planting organization. He is a co-founder of the J29 Coalition and the founder of Disarming Leviathan. His first book, Disarming Leviathan: Loving Your Christian Nationalist Neighbor, was published in 2024. He lives in Phoenix with his wife and children. Show Transcript [00:00:00] Julie Roys: Christian nationalism has taken over large swaths of the United States, but is this movement really Christian? And is it possible to engage with a Christian nationalist in a disarming way that doesn’t end up in a fight? Welcome to The Roy’s Report, a podcast dedicated to reporting the truth and restoring the church. [00:00:21] Julie Roys: I’m Julie Roys, and joining me today is Caleb Campbell, a one-time skinhead, who became a Christian. And for the last 18 years, Caleb has been pastoring a church in Phoenix, Arizona, a hotbed of Christian nationalists fervor. On this podcast, you’ll hear how Christian nationalism divided Caleb’s church and left him so wounded he had to take a sabbatical. [00:00:42] Julie Roys: But you’ll also hear how God used this experience to soften Caleb’s heart and to motivate him to learn more about this movement and how to reach those ensnared by it. And if you’ve struggled to know what to think about Christian nationalism or how to engage with your Christian nationalist friends and family, you’re really going to benefit from this podcast. [00:01:00] Julie Roys: I’ll get to my interview with Caleb in just a moment, but first I’d like to thank the sponsors of this podcast, The Restore Conference. If you’re someone who’s experienced church hurt or abuse, there are few places you can go to pursue healing. Similarly, if you’re an advocate, counselor, or pastor, there are few conferences designed to equip you to minister to people traumatized in the church. [00:01:23] Julie Roys: But The Restore Conference, this February 7th and 8th in Phoenix, Arizona, is designed to do just that. Joining us will be leadi