165 Lexus' Cesarean + Birth Trauma Processing

Today’s episode is vulnerable, raw, and beautifully courageous. In the first of a two-part episode series, we meet Lexus. Lexus shares the trauma of her first birth which ended in a crash Cesarean. She walks us through her anxiety, shock, the negligence of the hospital staff, and how she was stripped of the first birth experience she had envisioned.Lexus is currently pregnant with her second baby and is preparing for a VBAC. She shows us how she is finding healing even before her redemptive birth outcome. We can’t wait for Lexus to come back and share her second birth story!We wish birth trauma didn’t exist. We wish we could wave a magic wand and make it all disappear. But here at The VBAC Link, we also know how resilient you are. We see what you overcome. We know what victories you are capable of. We love you and continue to be inspired by you, Women of Strength.Trigger Warning: We know that unfortunately, many of our listeners can relate to the trauma Lexus shares. This episode may bring up unresolved feelings from a previous birth. Please give yourself grace and use discretion when listening. Additional linksHow to VBAC: The Ultimate Preparation Course for ParentsAlexis Joy Center for Perinatal Mental Health Episode sponsorThis episode is sponsored by our signature course, How to VBAC: The Ultimate Preparation Course for Parents. It is the most comprehensive VBAC preparation course in the world, perfectly packaged in an online, self-paced, video course. Together, Meagan and Julie have helped over 800 parents get the birth that they wanted, and we are ready to help you too. Head over to thevbaclink.com to find out more and sign up today.Sponsorship inquiriesInterested in sponsoring a The VBAC Link podcast? Find out more information here at advertisecast.com/TheVBACLink or email us at [email protected]. Full transcriptNote: All transcripts are edited to correct grammar and to eliminate false starts and filler words. Trigger WarningMeagan: Hey everyone, this is Meagan. I wanted to drop a little trigger warning here for this awesome episode. This episode is about sharing birth trauma and how to process it leading up to this person‘s VBAC. We just wanted to let you know it may be traumatic listening to it and bring up past fears or feelings that you may have had from your previous birth. Dive right in though, she gets really raw and emotional and shares what she does to work through her trauma.Meagan: Hello, hello. It is Wednesday and we have another amazing podcast episode for you today. This is The VBAC Link podcast and you are with Meagan, myself, and our assistant, Sarah, today instead of Julie. Sarah, we are so excited that you are with us.Sarah: Oh, I am so excited to be here.Meagan: I am going to totally tattletale on Julie. She is normally by the book, on time, total scheduler, like awesome. I am the one that is scatterbrained. When we scheduled today’s podcast, she forgot she had a prior commitment. She is actually getting her teeth drilled right now, so probably not having as much fun as us. Poor Julie. Send her some love over there at the dentist. But we are excited today to be recording with our friend, Lexus. Today’s episode is going to be a little bit different than some of our other episodes. As you know if you have been listening with us, we tend to share VBAC or CBAC stories. Today, Lexus is going to be sharing her C-section story and she is actually pregnant right now, due this year, and hasn’t had her VBAC yet, but is preparing for her VBAC. And so, we want to share her story today and what she is doing to prepare for her VBAC. But of course, before we dive into her awesome story, we want to turn the time over to Sarah to share one of our awesome reviews from one of our listeners.Review of the WeekSarah: Yes. I have a review from Danielle Clady. She left the review on our Google podcast, which is exciting because we don’t get very many reviews on our Google podcast. She says, “I have been listening to this podcast for MONTHS while I drive for work as I prepare for my VBAC in July.  I recommend it to all expecting moms (including first-time moms) because I WISH I knew about it before my first birth. The podcast is the reason I have hired a doula. Fingers crossed restrictions are lifted and she can come to the hospital!”So exciting. It doesn’t say when. Let’s see, July. So she would’ve had her baby already because she left this review in May.Meagan: In May, okay. So if you are listening still, write us and let us know how your birth went. We always love to know the follow-ups. Maybe we should be like Julie and stalk her in our community to see if she is in there and has posted.Sarah: Yes.Meagan: Do you know what? I love that she said that she recommends it to all first-time moms. That is something that I think is awesome about this podcast. It really isn’t just targeted to people wanting to VBAC. It really is something that all birthers can listen to because we are learning in each episode ways to avoid Cesarean, ways to advocate for ourselves, education pieces on how to help our bodies be ready. It is just so awesome. So if you are someone or if you know someone who is pregnant, or expecting, or wanting to start trying, definitely send them this podcast because we would love to reach all the moms out there and help them achieve the birth of their dreams.Sarah: Oh, 100%. I recommend this podcast to everyone I know regardless of if they are first-time moms or if they have already had a baby and didn’t have a Cesarean because there is something in every episode that someone can relate to in their birth.Episode sponsorJulie: Do you want a VBAC but don’t know where to start? It’s easy to feel like we need to figure it all out on our own. That’s what we used to do, and it was the loneliest and most ineffective thing we have ever done. That’s why Meagan and I created our signature course, How to VBAC: The Ultimate Preparation Course for Parents, that you can find at thevbaclink.com. It is the most comprehensive VBAC preparation course in the world, perfectly packaged in an online, self-paced, video course.  Together, Meagan and I have helped over 800 parents get the birth that they wanted, and we are ready to help you too. Head on over to thevbaclink.com to find out more and sign up today. That’s thevbaclink.com. See you there. Lexus’ storyMeagan: Okay, we are so excited to dive into this episode. I definitely think that there is going to be some emotion in this because as I have been reading through Lexus‘ story, there were some hard points in her labor, and her journey, and her birth. We are excited for her to share them and to share the tips on how we can better prepare for the next birth. Lexus, we would like to turn the time over to you.Lexus: Hi. Thank you so much for having me. I’m so excited. This is my very first podcast, so I am super eager, and yeah, like you said, pretty nervous about the emotions that might come up, but I am embracing them because that is part of the journey as well.Meagan: Yes.Lexus: Yeah, so I can just get started. Back in April, I was 40 weeks and 6 days pregnant with my son, Theodore. We were getting ready to go in. It was my induction day. It was a Monday. I went into the hospital at 8:00 a.m. My husband and I were like two kids going to the candy shop. We were so excited. We were smiling from ear to ear. We really just had no idea how fast things can change and flip. I definitely think-- see? The emotions have started already. I am sorry. I definitely think it is something that going forward, instead of saying that, “This is my plan.” I am having a lot of, “These are my goals,” for the next birth. That has really helped put it into perspective that things can go not according to plan.Meagan: Definitely. That’s such a great point. We talk about birth plans and stuff. I have over the years steered my clients away from calling it a birth plan or having a “plan” because we know things can change. And so, if we can know our preferences and try to achieve all of our goals in the process, sometimes if they do change, then that plan doesn’t seem to have failed.Lexus: Absolutely. Yeah. That was the biggest part for me. So, yeah. We went in and we started the very long and really difficult process of induction. When they first told me about going in for my induction, I really wasn’t anticipating everything that was going to happen. The first thing that they did when I got in there was the initial height, weight, etc. But then we had a doctor come in and say, “We are going to do the Foley catheter on you.” I really wasn’t thinking, but looking back on it in hindsight, that for me was so-- I mean, it was scary. It was painful. I never want to scare women or moms from the process because it is so different for everyone. But I think there is something to be said that when it comes to forcing your body to do something that it’s not yet ready to do, that can take a toll. It truly does.I first got the Foley catheter and instantly as soon as it was placed, the doctors were taking off their gloves and the nurse was trying to fix the monitor and put it back on my son’s heartbeat. She couldn’t get it onto his heart. She couldn’t find it. The doctors were about to just walk out of the room and leave and the nurse said, “Aren’t you guys going to stay here for a minute?” She was moving it around and I really wasn’t even thinking that it was a big deal in the moment, because I just kept thinking, “Oh, he flipped around. He is a super active baby in there. He’s always kicking. He is always moving.”And then, I started to see the doctors look more and more at the monitor and look more, not-- I honestly wouldn’t say concerned. It just looked like they were almost studying it. All of a sudden, she was moving it around and they call a Condition O and the bells start going off. My husband and I were sitting there like, “Well, we don’t really know what a Condition O is.” We were just kind of, you know, “They arere trying to find it. They needed some backup, whatever.”And then all of a sudden, 20 to 30 people come rushing into the room and they are telling me to get on my side, get on the other side, get on my hands and knees, get up and they threw an oxygen mask at me. That’s when I really knew, “Oh my goodness. Something is seriously wrong.” I just remember being on my hands and knees and thinking to myself, “I can’t support myself. My arms are shaking. My legs are shaking. I can’t support myself. I can’t do it.”I remember looking around the room, looking for someone that could be my focal point. My husband is great but he was just as scared. We had a swarm of people in the room and he was pushed to the back so other people can do what they have to do. That for us was a very heavy, emotional moment. I start crying. I start panicking. You know, shaking. It was really heavy. All of a sudden, I don’t know how, but the heartbeat of my son came back on and it was perfect. Looking back and when I asked, they had said that only two or three minutes had passed, but it felt like hours of that panic and not being able to comprehend what had happened in such a short amount of time.And so, they said, “His heart rate is back. It’s stabilized. He is great.” I rested myself back on the bed and I am still shaking. I am still-- you know, I was in shock. I was traumatized in that moment right there. They come in again and they say, “Wow. We know that was super scary. We just want to explain to you that was a Condition O. We were getting you prepped to go in for an emergency C-section. We had to get your son out right in that minute. It was serious.” We started to just look at each other and look around like, “Oh my gosh. How is this happening? What is happening?” And so they said, “Your anxiety caused your son to go into distress in that moment.” I remember going, “Oh my gosh. I haven’t even given birth yet and I’m already messing up.”Being told that your anxiety is causing your son to go into distress, I mean, how can you process that? Where is the evidence behind this? Where is-- you know? How can you blame that moment on me and on the nervousness I was feeling when it just didn’t make sense to me? I just remember sitting there and being told this but feeling still so numb from everything that had happened the last five minutes or however long it had been in that time.Meagan: You know, that is interesting too because your anxiety-- I mean, anxiety in general. I would have anxiety in that moment. That anxiety, you may have been anxious going into the situation, but then the anxiousness was created by what was happening. That is very interesting. I am sorry. I am sorry that you were blamed.Lexus: Yeah. That is exactly what it was. It felt like in that moment there wasn’t really an explanation for what had happened, so it was trying to placate or say, “Well, this is what caused it. It won’t happen again if we just keep this in line, etc.”That was definitely something that had already set me up for the feelings of going, “Oh my gosh. What is going on?” They told us over and over, “It was a fluke. There is absolutely no reason it should happen again. It was an incredibly rare circumstance that it would happen.” They suggested getting the epidural so that if something did happen, I could be awake for my C-section, but there was absolutely no reason to suspect that it would happen. I initially had said I didn’t want the epidural going into it just because it scared me-- the risks and the procedure of getting it scared me in general. It was a scary process to think about. But I said, “Okay, yeah. That is something that I need to do so that I can get the most out of this experience and I can be there for the birth of my son.”I signed all of the waivers and all of the information. They came in and they started to put the epidural in. As soon as it was placed, I knew something was wrong. I remember saying almost instantly, “Only half of me is going numb.” They kept saying, “Well, you have to lay on your other side because the epidural and the medication works by gravity.” I’ve done a lot of research since that time and I know that is not correct at all. Epidurals don’t work via gravity.They had kept telling me, “You have to lay on that side. Keep pushing the button. Keep medicating. Keep switching, but stay on that side if it is still not getting the medication.” So I said, “Okay. We will try it.” I kept laboring. Over the course of the next 10 hours that I labored, I requested, from my memory, four times for a provider to come in and check the placement of the epidural because I still didn’t think that it was correct. My husband remembers more-- more times that I asked, that is, and I remember four very vividly saying, “Something is not right. I have been on my left side this entire time. Something is going on.” Over the course of 10 hours, not a single person from the anesthesiology team came to check on the placement of my epidural. I briefly had providers come in. I shared my concern and it was, “All right, we will pass that along.”When the nurse came in, I said, “Listen, please. Can someone have someone come in and check the epidural? It is not right.” They said, “Well, are you pushing the button?” I said, “Yes. I am pushing the button.” They just said, “All right. We will go let them know. We will send someone in.”So, 10 hours passed. It is insane to think that 10 hours passed and I wasn’t properly-- the epidural was just in my back and not being monitored. They are supposed to be monitored. They are supposed to be checked for placement. When changeovers in staffing happen, there should be someone in there checking it and no one came.And so, I labored. The Foley catheter came out when-- jeez, I think I was 5 centimeters dilated? I can’t remember specifically. That’s when they said, “Okay, we will start the Pitocin. We will keep you going.” I continued to laboring. I believe it was about 9:30 at night that they had said to me, “All right. We are going to check you again.” I was 9 centimeters. I remember looking at my husband and being like, “Oh my gosh. We did it. We are almost there. I am doing great. We are doing great. Everything is great. Nothing scary is happening again. We are doing a good job.”They said, “All right. We are going to have someone come in. We will break your waters and--” Sorry. This is when it starts getting really heavy. “We will--” I’m sorry. “We will have someone come in and we will break your waters. We think that everything will start happening very quickly and you are going to meet your baby soon.” I remember the doctors left and I remember looking at my husband and saying, “We did it. We are here. We are going to see him soon.” We even talked about and joked like, “Where can we set up our phone in the room so that we can record everything and get everything on video so that we can watch it back and we can remember this forever?”I remember saying, “We’ve got to call in my OB. We have to call her. We have to tell her that I made it to 9 centimeters and I did it and we are ready.” And then everything starts to get very heavy to look back and to sort through those memories.My OB came in. She was like, “Oh my gosh, you are doing awesome. You are doing so well. You progressed so fast. Normally first labors can go longer, you are doing great.” My waters had already been ruptured by that point. And so, we were just taking in the moment. All of a sudden, my contractions were really, really close together. But I thought, “Well, I am 9 centimeters. That means I am probably just getting to 10 and I will be ready to go.”And then, those bells that I know I will hear for the rest of my life started going off again. This time my husband and I knew that there were going to be a lot of people coming in, but that it was a fluke and that everything was going to be fine in the next minute. I remember hearing over the loudspeaker, “Condition O. Labor and Delivery Room 11. Condition O.”Everyone came in and then they said, “Her contractions are too close. We have to stop the Pitocin.” And so, they stopped administering the Pitocin. They gave me medication to stop the contractions, but they were too strong. I was contracting about every two minutes at that point and they said, “The baby is in distress. We need to fill her sac up with water again so that he has room.”I remember just feeling like, all of these people were coming at me and pushing these things inside of me. I was just going, “What do I do? What do I do?” just sitting there and it wasn’t working. I don’t know if the water wasn’t retaining or what happened and so then they said, “We still can’t get him on the monitor. We need to attach a monitor to his head.” And so, they were grabbing a monitor and they were trying to attach it to his head. I just kept thinking to myself, “Please, please, please just find the heartbeat. Please, just-- everything is fine. He is going to be fine. Everything is okay.” They kept saying, “Get on your side. On the other side. Get on your hands and knees. Get up. Move.” I remember trying so hard to get myself moving as fast as I could, but I had the epidural and at nine months pregnant, I was a bigger girl.It was hard to get up in that moment and as fast as they wanted me to. I was trying to move, trying to listen to their requests and instructions as much as I could, as fast as I could, but I just felt like I wasn’t able to move fast enough. I remember they said, “Let’s get back on your back.” My OB looked at me and she said, “Lexus, I am so sorry. We are going to bring you right now. We have got to make sure he is okay. We are going to bring you in for a C-section now.” I remember saying, “No. No. That’s not how this was supposed to go. That is not what we had planned. This is not anything that we had planned for.” I just kept saying, “No. No.”I looked up at the new anesthesiologist who was in there and I said, “My epidural hasn’t been working. There’s something wrong with my epidural. I don’t know what’s going on, but only one half of me is numb.” He said, “Oh, we will fix that,” and he pushed another dose of medication. They unhooked me and I looked at my husband and I said, “Please, please come be with me,” because I was so afraid that he wasn’t going to be in the room with me.They were wheeling me down the halls and I just remember seeing again, “Condition O, Labor and Delivery Room 1”1 on the signs in the hallway and hearing the bells. They get me to the delivery room and a doctor I hadn’t met came up to me and said, “I am going to take care of your baby. I am going to make sure your baby is okay.” In that moment, I said, “I am going to die. I am dying. I know I am dying. I am never going to meet my son and my husband needs to be here. I don’t know where he is.” The last time I had seen him, he was putting on his scrubs and he was excited and he said, “I am going to be right there. They’re coming back for me.”And so, they wheeled me into the operating room and I remember some of the nurses were almost frustrated with me because they said, “Get up and get yourself on the bed.” I remember going, “How?” Do you know? How was I supposed to transfer myself over to their table with an epidural being nine months pregnant and being in a lying position, transfer myself over to another bed?Meagan: They actually thought you could move to the other bed by yourself?Lexus: Yes. Yes.Meagan: That’s wild.Lexus: Yes. They just said, “Get up and climb over.” I was like, “How? How can I do this?” I just remembered thinking, “How?” like again, “How am I supposed to do this?” And so, by the time that I finally got help to be moved over, I kept saying, “Where is Bo? I need Bo.” Bo is my husband.I kept saying, “I need Bo. Where is Bo?” I’m sorry. They kept saying, “He is on his way. We are going to get him. We just have to get you set up.” They put up the blue sheet and I looked at one of the nurses and I said, “Please, don’t let my baby die. Please, don’t let my baby die.” I remember they pushed more medication through the IV and they were poking my sides. They poked my right side and asked if I felt it and I said, “No.” And then, they poked my left side and asked if I felt it and I said, “Yes.” They said other things I don’t even remember and then they tried it again. They poked my right side. I didn’t feel anything. They poked my left side. I still felt it. And then they said, “All right,” and took something. I just remember it being so sharp. They pushed on my abdomen and they said, “Do you feel this?” I said, “Yes.” They said, “That’s it. Put her under.” I remember going, “What?” Like, not knowing what that even meant, and then a mask was over my face and that was it.That was the last thing that I heard and experienced in that moment.Meagan: And had Bo made it back in there, yet? No?Lexus: No. Nope. He was still waiting to be brought back. He was still in the room, waiting. I’m sorry. And so, my son was delivered a very, very healthy baby. Thank God. He was 8 pounds, 2 ounces. He was born at 10:28, but these are all things that I have had to be told about my son because I wasn’t there. I wasn’t. Physically I was there, but I was asleep. I wasn’t taking in those moments. I didn’t hear his cry. I didn’t experience anything like that. Instead, I woke up two hours after he was born and I was still so groggy and under the medication and disoriented that I couldn’t open my eyes, but I just kept hearing him crying. And so, instinctually, laying in the bed, and this is something that I will have with me until the day that I die. I was laying there and screaming for help because I couldn’t move my legs and get up to go get my baby. I couldn’t see him because I was so disoriented. I couldn’t open my eyes and look around to see what was going on. I just kept screaming for help. I hear my husband and my mom saying, “Everything is okay. He is okay. He is perfect. He is here. And, look. He is here. Open your eyes. He is right here.” And finally, when I could open my eyes, I remember being-- the first time that I could hold him and just looking at him, I was just so not present and still so confused. I can’t even think of an emotion that I felt other than just confusion.This is one of the beautiful things about that instinctual motherhood where I had had that C-section and I had just had a massive incision on my abdomen, but as soon as they placed him in my arms, I just started rocking back-and-forth. I remember my mom saying, “Lexus, you have got to stop. You have a huge incision on your stomach. You’ve got to stop. You’re going to hurt yourself.” But I just remember that instinctual needing to sway with him and needing to rock him and calm him down. So that was for me, something that was beautiful in that moment I guess I would say, just feeling like as soon as I had him, I could move. I could sway and I could be in touch with that part of me I was having that identity of being a mom.But there were still a lot of pieces that I wasn’t understanding or wasn’t picking up. I kept having to ask my husband, “You were there, right? You saw everything, right? You got to cut his umbilical cord, right?”At the time, he was like, “Yeah, I was there. It was crazy. It was so amazing. Such an experience.” And then, I felt good because I felt like that was one thing I had done right. I had advocated for myself to say, “My husband needs to be here. Where is Bo? Bo needs to be here.” It wasn’t until later-- I think I had asked him like 10 more times, he finally said, “Honey, I am so sorry. I didn’t want to tell you this in the moment because I didn’t want to upset you more. But, I couldn’t be there and the nurses came back to tell me that I had a baby boy and that everything was okay.” He said, “That was it. That was all my experience of that was.”And so, of course, the timing just added up to be the perfect storm. We were in the elevator moving to the maternity side of the hospital. I had just found this out and I was sobbing. Oh my goodness, I was so sad and just feeling like the one thing I thought I did right, I didn’t do right. I just robbed my husband of this experience. It was his first experience becoming a dad and I robbed him of that.So when we get to the maternity side though, what they see is a woman hysterically sobbing and the nurses say overtop to my husband, “Watch out for her, Dad. She is at a greater risk for postpartum depression. It will start with her not eating or not sleeping.” I just remember laying there and being like, “Am I not here right now?”Sarah: Are you kidding me?Lexus: Just say this over me like I was just a body.Meagan: “Watch out for her, Dad?”Lexus: Yeah.Meagan: Ugh, ugh. I have no words.Lexus: Yeah. I just remember looking at my husband and looking back at the nurse and going, “What? What?” You know, just not even being able to fully process it. And so, that was the extent of my birth experience with Teddy. Trauma is definitely a difficult thing because it has the ability to block out certain parts and then have it pop up at random moments. That was pretty much the key parts that I wanted to reiterate and talk about because throughout my time studying, and researching, and trying to learn more, and understand this through and through, I have heard of a lot of women talking about epidural issues, misplacements, asking for help and not getting it, and you know? That was something for me that I thought, “How is this happening?” How are so many women being ignored and not being listened to when they say and advocate for themselves in a very vulnerable, raw moment of giving birth, “Hey, this isn’t right.” They are not being taken seriously.Going forward planning for this VBAC, I have honestly done so, so much to educate myself, to grow in ways that I didn’t know were possible. I saw a provider’s mental health program professional that specialized in perinatal mental health and that was the most healing and therapeutic process that I could have ever-- I truly am so blessed to have found them, to have used them as a resource, and to go through so much treatment with them and grow. I graduated from my birth trauma course— cognitive processing therapy. I couldn’t believe how impactful and how meaningful the entire therapy was and how much it really-- for lack of a better phrase, it lit a fire under me to learn to advocate and then to talk about it.I filed a grievance with the hospital. That was part of my process that I decided was what I needed to do within my CPT. I filed a grievance. I had the grievance meeting with them and I said, “Listen. This isn’t right. What happened to me is not right and I can almost guarantee you that it is happening to other women.” For a moment, it even crossed my mind like, “Do I need to contact an attorney? Do I need to reach out to someone?” But it became that aspect of, if I were to contact an attorney, if I were to reach out for some type of medical negligence or medical malpractice, etc., I would be handed a piece of paper that said, “We will give you X amount if you don’t talk about this again and if you don’t tell anyone what happened.” I sat there for a minute and just went, “Nothing is going to come from this. Being silenced is going to do nothing.”Meagan: Oh my gosh.Lexus: That was with my consulting with many different professionals. It wasn’t anything directly from the hospital that said, “We’ll give you an NDA.” It was really looking at, how are medical malpractice suits handled? It is notoriously with, “We will give you some money if you just don’t talk about it again.” And so, I decided to take the route of talking about it, and researching, and telling my story because it happened to me. I know it happened to me and I know what is happening to other women. The only thing that will change from that moment or I guess I should say really, nothing is going to change what happened during my birth. But talking about it, and advocating, and pushing for trauma-informed care, and pushing for trauma-informed clinicians, and looking at the policies and how they are either being applied or not really just has been the best and most therapeutic way of moving forward from this.Meagan: Wow. Wow. What a heavy experience you have had so far.Lexus: Yeah. It was absolutely everything I never anticipated ever happening for sure. That has definitely led into why I am using a lot of goals for this pregnancy. A goal of mine is for a VBAC and to reach that goal. I am putting in the steps of studying, asking my doctor what their rate of VBAC is, reaching out to other moms, listening to podcasts, and really trying to take it all in, asking about hospital policies how they go about VBACs, how they go about emergencies, Condition O’s, really trying to educate myself and put as much information in my pocket as I can so that in that moment, it is almost muscle memory to know these things, and to push for them, and advocate for them, so I am not scrambling at the last minute.Meagan: Definitely. So, provider-wise now, what have you done to find the provider that is right for you now?Lexus: So actually, I am still going there.Meagan: Or have you found one?Lexus: It’s going to sound strange enough. I am still with the same provider that I was with for the birth of my son.Meagan: Oh really?Lexus: Yes. You know, my provider is incredible and I firmly believe that had they been there the entire duration of my labor experience, things would have absolutely been different. My provider listens, cares, knows me and has been there. I definitely think that things would have been different, but it also goes to say that there is a really strong trauma bond there. This was the provider that was there during those moments where everything went from 0 to 100, and performed the C-section, and made sure my husband got to at least meet my son and be included in the process as much as possible. So, it’s definitely something that I am still really working on. Is this a bond that-- I know it’s a trauma bond, but is it anything that is going to-- basically, I would be delivering in the same hospital.Meagan: Yeah, I was going to say that the place itself could be a trigger.Lexus: Absolutely. Absolutely. That’s something that I am really working on moving forward. That goes partly with my research and asking, talking to doctors, reading about doctors. “What are you doing to be trauma-informed? What education are you still pursuing to make sure that you are up-to-date on birth trauma and moving forward with the process of delivering another baby given such a heavy, heavy trauma that was experienced the first time?” And so, it’s a process. It’s really-- it’s still working and I am still trying to navigate everything and go through the motions of it all.Trauma has a very, very difficult way of manifesting itself with the trauma bond. It’s interesting, and it’s sad, and it’s heavy, and it’s emotional, and it’s all of these things. It’s a learning process and so, I am still reaching out. I am still in touch with my amazing psychologist and birth trauma therapist and working through all of these things trying to figure out what is the best course of action moving forward. But, yeah. It is a process. I have some time, thankfully.Meagan: Yeah, yes. You’ve got a few months.Lexus: Yeah.Meagan: I am so proud of you for doing all of this and working through this. It is a really hard experience to want to touch and go back on, you know? To reflect back on. I think a lot of the time we as human beings, we process our trauma by avoiding it.Lexus: Yes.Meagan: And pushing it away, and compressing it down, and you are bringing it back to light, and even walking through the same doors to fight through this trauma. And so, yeah. Kudos for sure to you. Wow. Thank you so much for sharing that story. I’m so sorry that you had to go through all of that. It definitely sounds like you were mistreated. It’s not fair and it’s not right. I hope that this next experience is very different and uplifting and healing in itself.What other tips, before we wrap up, would you feel that parents out there need to know that maybe have gone through trauma similar, or maybe you haven’t even had trauma, or haven’t even had a baby yet to avoid trauma? Or recognizing if your-- is it even possible to recognize if you are going to a traumatic state in the moment? I actually don’t know the answer to that.Lexus: Yeah, no. I think it’s definitely something that hindsight is always going to be 20/20. Hindsight is always going to show you in those moments when my arms are trembling and I couldn’t process what was going on, I was in a state of shock. I was going through that trauma. Moving forward, speaking to people that have not experienced trauma in any type of way or haven’t experienced it is just, have grace with yourself for not recognizing it in that moment because it is hard. When you are going through a traumatic experience, there are so many other things going on that it’s almost impossible to be able to say, “I think I am being traumatized right now.” So moving forward, if you find yourself not experiencing trauma and then all of a sudden you are in treatment for trauma or etc., just to have grace with yourself for not recognizing it in that moment.I am going to school for counseling psychology. I’m going to school for all of these things. I have been in school for years for this and I still-- in that moment, I had no idea what was going on or what was happening with me. So, it just is looking at-- be patient. Give yourself the grace moving forward and then really trying to figure out how to process it. I guess that’s my tip for having experienced birth trauma. I am very, very grateful for the resource that I had at my fingertips being here in Pittsburgh. The Alexis Joy clinic, absolutely. The Alexis Joy Center for Perinatal Mental Health is the full title. I am so, very blessed to have had professionals in perinatal mental health and professionals that have dedicated their careers to learning about birth trauma, experiences during birth, working through all of the emotions that really-- I knew I was in the right place as soon as I started seeing someone. It was exactly where I needed to be, but unfortunately, it is hard to find centers like that nationwide. Do you know what I mean? In America, we are definitely behind. We are not up-to-date on perinatal mental health. It is flabbergasting to me that we aren’t up-to-date on this and we aren’t as educated, but that is also why I talk. That is why I advocate because more people need to be specialized in this and know how to handle it properly and in a therapeutic manner. So, I think that would be my biggest tip going forward and to also encourage partners to seek out care and to seek out trauma counseling or perinatal resources for partners as well, because they are going through something at the same time as you are. It is different, yes. It is different being the person laying there and the person standing over there, but all the while it is still very-- trauma can impact and does impact everyone in different ways. So, just encouraging families and parents to reach out to specialized providers to do some research on where they can go and knowing that there is a resource for them, knowing that there is always and will be a place that they can go and get the help that they need.Meagan: I love it. Thank you so much for sharing that. I know that your words will inspire and empower people out there who are, like I said, maybe facing trauma, or wanting to avoid trauma, and wanting to know how to work through these avenues. So, thank you so much again for sharing your story. We hope to make this a two-segment episode, the second one being your second birth. We would love to share that, so definitely keep us posted. We are sending you all the love and luck for this next birth.Lexus: Thank you so much. Thank you for having me. Thank you for giving me this opportunity to find therapeutic healing in any and all ways that I can, and for listening. It means so much to me.Meagan: Absolutely.ClosingWould you like to be a guest on the podcast? Head over to thevbaclink.com/share and submit your story. For all things VBAC, including online and in-person VBAC classes, The VBAC Link blog, and Julie and Meagan’s bios, head over to thevbaclink.com. 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