Episode 207 Rachel's HBA3C + Plus Size Birth + Big Babies

For her first three births, doctors refused to allow Rachel to go into labor and pushed for scheduled C-sections. Rachel knew the risks involved with being plus-sized and potentially having large babies, but she just wanted someone to give her a chance. With her fourth pregnancy, Rachel knew she needed to pursue birth on her own terms. She found a supportive community, prepared with extensive research, and hired a very experienced, VBAC-friendly home birth midwife. After weeks of prodromal labor, Rachel was able to deliver her baby girl at home without any complications. She finally felt safe and protected in her birthing space. Rachel found redemption, healing, and confidence both in her body and in herself.Additional linksThe VBAC Link Blog: Plus Size BirthThe VBAC Link Facebook CommunityHow to VBAC: The Ultimate Prep Course for ParentsFull transcriptNote: All transcripts are edited to correct grammar, false starts, and filler words. Meagan: Good morning. Good afternoon. Good evening. Whatever time it is where you are listening, welcome to The VBAC Link. This is Meagan and I just can’t even begin to tell you about this episode that is coming your way. You guys are going to love it. Like, seriously love it. As we were talking a little bit before we started recording, I was dying. I was sitting here taking notes. Let me just tell you, our friend Rachel here has been through so much. Everything. I mean, seriously. There are all of the things. Plus-sized mama, a big baby, VBAC after three C-sections. I should say HBAC after three C-sections. Let’s see. A bait and switch. So many things, oh my gosh. So many things. I’m not going to take too much time right now because I really want to turn the time over to her. Just in the ten minutes that I was talking to her a little bit about her stories, I was dying. I was dying. I was like, “Okay. We have to start her recording because everyone needs to hear this.” Review of the WeekMeagan: We are going to dive into it, but of course, I have a Review of the Week. If you have not had a moment to leave us a review, we would love it. We would absolutely love it. You can leave a review on Apple Podcasts and Google Play. I think maybe Spotify. You can email us at [email protected]. You can just Google us. Send us a message on Instagram or Facebook. Wherever it may be, we would love your reviews and we would love to read them on the podcast. Today’s review is from Kim.Aboo and this is on Apple Podcasts. Her topic is “Prepping for My VBAC.” It says, “My first pregnancy, I elected for a C-section for my twins. In my second current pregnancy, I was very indecisive on whether I wanted to VBAC or not. My provider actually brought it up to me. Upon doing more research, I came across The VBAC Link’s Insta. At 22 weeks pregnant, I decided that I’m going to VBAC. In one of your episodes, the mom said, ‘I had to trust my body. Know you can do it and believe in yourself.’ That empowered me and I told myself, ‘I can do it.’“I have been listening to all of the episodes ever since, doing the research, prepping my body through exercise, squats, chiropractic care, and everything else I have heard. I am excited and I look forward to it. My baby is due in August and I will let you know how it goes. I have to say thank you, thank you, thank you for your podcast, Insta page, and the wealth of information you share.” Well, thank you, Kim. And guess what? It’s actually August right now as we are recording, so Kim, if you are still listening, we would love to know how the birth went either way. This is one thing I want to emphasize about this podcast. Yes, we are sharing stories about VBAC and we encourage VBAC. We want people to know their options about VBAC. However, we also know that CBACs happen and that is okay too. Sometimes, we also know that they are desired and that is also okay too. I just want you to know that if you have a CBAC, we still want to share your story. We still want to hear your story and we want you to know that you are a woman of strength. We are so happy for you and proud of you. Rachel’s StoryMeagan: Okay, Rachel. I am so excited. I’m not kidding you. I saw your post. It kind of went viral on all sorts of pages and I was like, “She has to. She has to be on the podcast.” I got chills reading and like I was telling you before we started recording, I can’t wait to hear it from your, from your voice, and from yourself because I feel like when you are reading it, you put your own emotion and emphasis and tone into it, but I can’t wait to hear yours. And then like I said, just before we were recording, listening to all of the things you’ve been through. You are flipping incredible. I just want you to know that I am so honored that you are here with us today to share your stories. So without further ado, I’m going to turn the time over for you to blow everyone’s minds. Rachel: All righty. So a little introduction of myself, my name is Rachel Richard. I currently live in Oklahoma. I was born and raised here. I’ve been married to my husband, Dennis, now for going on 8 and a half years. We’ve known each other for about ten and we just had our fourth little baby on August 6th. I should say, big baby, not little. Meagan: A perfect, perfect-sized baby. Rachel: Yes. So a little back story on how I came to my fourth home birth after 3 C-sections. My very first one, I was 20 years old. It was my first pregnancy. I had a great pregnancy. It was very normal with no complications at all. But come 40 weeks and 2 days, I had my routine weekly checkup with my OB and they started noticing that my blood pressure was slightly elevated. Nothing concerning, but they did test my urine and I did have protein in my urine. The fear-mongering started. He brings me into his office which is outside of regular exam rooms. It was just his office. We sat down, my husband and I, and he basically says that with my weight and the fact that I wasn’t dilated at 40 weeks and 2 days that it would more or less be an uphill battle for labor. Our induction methods, I guess, would be limited based on what he was telling me because I wasn’t dilated. By then, I was over being pregnant. It was my first pregnancy. I didn’t really know that having one C-section would lead to the cascade of issues I’ve had since then so, unfortunately, I was like, “Yeah. Let’s have a baby!” Two and a half hours later after my appointment, he quote-on-quote “fit me in after the twins”, so I literally drove directly from the doctor’s office to the hospital and they started prepping me, essentially, for the delivery. Completely no complications. It was a great delivery. I had no negative feelings toward it. I was happy I had a baby. I had a great recovery. I was up and doing everything normal after baby. Probably within two weeks, I felt like it was great. I do have an apron belly, so I did have some discomfort. I couldn’t lay on my side and things like that. I basically lived in the recliner for the first few weeks which is fine, but a great baby. She was only 6 pounds, 9 ounces. Meagan: Oh, teeny. Rachel: She was tiny. I was a 10-pound baby. All my mom’s babies were 10 pounds, so we were expecting a larger baby, but all of her ultrasounds were in the office by my OB, so I never had an actual tech do any of those, so all of his measurements were not accurate. He stopped measuring her at 34 weeks or whatever because she was just in weird positions. We don’t really know when she stopped growing or if she really tracked to be that small. Not really sure. It is possible that I did have preeclampsia and she did have some delayed growth there, but who’s to say? Maybe she’s just a small baby. But anyways, other than her size, it was a great pregnancy. She was healthy. We had some breastfeeding issues, but otherwise, she was great. Fast forward to my second pregnancy, they are 2 years and 10 days apart, so I waited for a little over 15 months and got pregnant with my second. Great pregnancy. I was actually researching midwives and got turned away from several midwife groups due to my BMI which I understood. It wasn’t a big deal. They have regulations they have to follow. It’s whatever, but they did refer me to a VBAC-friendly, size-friendly provider. I had a great experience with her. I still like her to this day. I just have some issues with the end of my pregnancy because I was bait and switched, unfortunately. I was one of those people that had a great experience, was told I was going to have this most amazing VBAC ever, and then come 38 weeks, she pulls out her VBAC Calculator online. Just that, “Your chances of a VBAC are less than 25%.” Blah, blah, blah all because of my weight, I would need a C-section.Meagan: You’re 38 weeks. At 38 weeks. Rachel: Yeah, and then she was like, “Well, and I like my VBAC moms to deliver by 39 weeks and you haven’t started dilating yet.” Basically the same spiel as the first one that my chances are a lot lower because my body isn’t ready, blah blah blah. He was also larger. I was seeing a perinatologist the entire time because of my suspected preeclampsia that happened two hours before my first child’s delivery. That is tracked on all of my records, so they had me see that doctor just to make sure I didn’t have it again. I didn’t. I had to take a lot of their testing more than once because I feel like they were looking for an issue based on my weight, that I was going to have gestational diabetes or preeclampsia or whatever and I never had any of that. It was a perfect pregnancy, a perfect baby, and never had any issues. I did have a lot of NSTs and a lot of ultrasounds with that pregnancy. All of that was normal. Meagan: Do you feel like looking back that those were maybe some red flags or do you feel like they were all warranted? Rachel: Going from my third pregnancy, honestly, that was the reason. They were unwarranted. I felt like they were excessive and unnecessary. Meagan: Yes. That’s a lot. Rachel: I get it that you are wanting to do that, but once you start to see that there’s nothing wrong, I feel like they should have stopped and I felt like they got more frequent. In several of the appointments, I intentionally didn’t go because I was just like, “I literally had one a week before and everything was fine. I feel fine and nothing has changed,” kind of things. It was really more annoying to me because I wasn’t working at the time, but I had another child at home who was less than two years old and I had to find childcare because my husband was working or bringing her with me which is chaos. That was very annoying and that’s kind of what led me to my fourth being unassisted was the delivery of my second. Basically, at 38 weeks, she was like, “You are not dilated. I’ll have you come in again and we’ll check you at 38.5.” It was a Monday at 38 weeks, and then on Friday, she checked me again. Of course, nothing had changed magically in 5 days. So she was like, “I like to deliver by 39 weeks.” Blah, blah, blah. I was just like, “Are you serious? I don't have a chance?” I cried in her office and I was very upset because I felt like I was bait and switched.I didn’t know that terminology at the time, but I was like, “You’ve been telling me all of these rainbows and butterflies for the last 38 weeks and now the whole script has changed.” I was just very blindsided by it. There was a term I used to use and I can’t remember what I used to say. It will probably come to me in a little bit, but I was devastated basically because I researched this lady. I had gone through and I was like, “I’m getting my vaginal birth. I’m getting it. That’s what is going to happen this time.” And unfortunately, I felt like all of my options were stripped from me and that the only option I had at that point was another C-section. I was so devastated. At 38.5, she basically said, “We’re going to schedule you for a C-section on Monday.” We got home and that appointment was early afternoon. When I got home, we started talking with my husband and I was like, “You know what? Why delay the inevitable? If you’re saying I can’t do anything. Nothing is going to change between 39 and 39 and a day because I think she scheduled me for Monday. I called back and I was like, “If you guys aren’t just going to let me have a vaginal birth, why don’t you just take him at 39 weeks?”I called them back and they scheduled me for first thing Sunday morning because I was like, “I’m not going to wait for two more days or for one more day for a C-section when you already said you wanted to take him.” I was just like, “You know what? Take him Sunday morning.” He was born. He was 9 pounds, 3 ounces at 39 weeks exactly. He would have easily been close to what my fourth was if he kept baking until he was ready, but perfect baby. Perfect delivery. I had a rough recovery. Rough. My incision didn’t close for about 4 weeks and after it did close, I had multiple rounds of antibiotics because it just oozed and oozed. Once it did close, I had several seromas that developed and we were concerned that they were abscesses, so I had several ultrasounds to rule that out. I was afraid that I was going to have to be cut back open. It was rough and with having two babies, my daughter had just turned two and my daughter is delayed. Delayed I say. Developmentally she wasn’t, but in speech she was. I didn’t really have any communication with her. They were both still in diapers. It was like having two babies. I was also breastfeeding both of them because my daughter was still nursing full-time, so I was tandem feeding all day long. Horrible pain, it was a rough recovery. I knew after that one that I did not want another C-section ever. Unfortunately, I did end up having a third. With that recovery, it took about 7 total weeks until I was back to normal and not in any pain. My incision was healed, but it was the polar opposite of my first, and I was not expecting it, so I didn’t have anything in place other than the fact that I had a recliner that I lived in basically for a month. Fast forward again a little over, so they are two and a half years apart, it was April. I had waited almost 2 years to get pregnant with my third. At that point, I knew that I did not want another C-section. I was going a different route. I was like, “I’m just going to have a home birth because obviously, the hospital is not going to let me do what I want to do.” I contacted a midwife who was actually the midwife I used this time with my fourth, but I was going the free birth, unassisted route with my third because I just felt like I could do it on my own. I was like, “You know what?” I hated everything about my second’s prenatal care. I felt like it was all unnecessary, and so I was just like, “You know what? I’ll just go unassisted. I’ll have the baby unassisted and I can do this. It’s totally fine.” I went 42 weeks and a day completely unassisted. I did have one ultrasound at 26 weeks when we found out that he was a boy. Everything was normal. I really did that for two things: to know the placental placement and make sure that there wasn’t any kind of Previa. Meagan: Yeah, especially with what you were planning. Rachel: I didn’t want anything to be interfering with that. Everything was perfect. He was fine. Measuring fine. Everything developmentally was great. There weren’t any red flags on his health or mine, so I felt comfortable with that. It was the only ultrasound and the only prenatal care I had up until the day before he was born. Everything was great. I had friends over. I had several weeks of random days of prodromal labor that would last 14-17 hours. Knowing what I know now after my fourth if I would have known because I didn’t know what a contraction felt like. I never had contractions with my first two, so going into my third, prodromal labor felt like labor to me because I hadn’t felt what a real contraction was. So every time I started having consistent contractions, I would call my doula over, call my friends over, call the birth photographer over, expecting it to go anywhere, but unfortunately, it went nowhere. It really wasn’t painful, so that’s another red flag for me knowing what I know now. If I would have had somebody there, I mean, yes. My doula was there, but she couldn’t feel what I was feeling and it was just one of those things. I just kept getting my hopes and kept getting my hopes up and kept getting my hopes up for several days and it led nowhere. My best friend at the time and the photographer both go out of town for the weekend of 42 weeks. I turned 42 weeks on Friday. They both leave town, and so I’m just feeling abandoned basically. Meagan: Yeah. I was going to say, feeling alone. Rachel: Yeah, alone and not necessarily scared, but the unknown was there and I was just like, “Can I do this fully alone?” And knowing that my husband– he’s a great guy and all, but he’s not very supportive when I’m in pain or anything like that, so I knew I couldn’t count on him during the birth. Any kind of trauma, my son cut his finger this past week and he was freaking out. He’s not one of those people that can keep calm, so I knew he was going to cause more of a problem for me if it was just me and him. I knew I needed somebody else. I did have my doula. She’s a great girl and I went to school with her in elementary school, but we didn’t reconnect until my pregnancy. So there’s a big gap in our lives that we didn’t really have time to catch up on. She was a friend of mine, but it wasn’t that close relationship that I would have needed to feel confident in my own abilities. I knew I needed somebody to support me. I don’t know why, but I expected to get support from nurses and staff at a hospital. Little did I know, that wasn’t going to happen. At 40 weeks on my due date, I also had family and stuff barking down my neck because I’d had two C-sections. Meagan: You hadn’t had a baby yet. Rachel: Yeah, and that. It was 42 weeks. I had two C-sections previously. Everybody was like, “What are you doing?” And so at 42 weeks exactly, I went to the hospital by myself which I should have never done. I went by myself. I walked in and was like, “I just need to have an ultrasound to check baby’s position.” Blah, blah, blah. They sent me up to triage in labor and delivery. Everybody is looking at me like I have five heads because they are asking me who my OB is and I tell them that I don’t have one and I don’t have any prenatal care at 42 weeks with two previous C-sections. They think I’m a nut job and I can hear them whispering behind the sheets and stuff because it was just a triage room. I didn’t even get a room. They did an NST. Everything was fine. They did an ultrasound. Everything was fine aside from their wanting to scare me with calcification on the placenta which is normal. Everything was fine. He was still head down. He was in a great position. Then, I was just like, “Okay cool. I’ll just go home.” I should have just gone home and gone to bed, but I didn’t. They basically cornered me in the room with two nurses and the OB there and were like, “We don’t want you to leave without having a C-section. You should have a C-section today.” I was there by myself. I was like, “You know what? Let me call my husband because I don’t feel comfortable right now. I can’t make a decision basically.” I ended up signing an AMA. I told them that I was going to go to another hospital where I delivered my second. I signed that and so I was like, “You know what? I’m just going to go there. They’re going to allow me to have a VBAC. Everything will be fine.” No. I get to the hospital. Checked in. I’m in a labor and delivery room. They check me. I’m a 3.5 which is the most I’ve ever been dilated and I was so happy. Meagan: Yeah, that’s a great starting point.Rachel: Right. Right, I thought so. The nurse was even like, “That’s good.” Her eyes perked up a little and she went to go get the OB. He still said, “We’re not going to induce you. We’re not going to give you anything.” I didn’t want Pitocin because of the additional risk of uterine rupture. I was 42 weeks. I had two C-sections. That wasn’t something that I wanted, but I was like, “Give me a Foley bulb or give me something. Or just give me time.” I felt that because I hadn’t had prenatal care, I didn’t want to sign an AMA a second time, just because I didn’t want any DHS or anybody else trying to get involved just because of my choice of how I wanted to do things. In my head, I was in this battle of, “I don’t want a C-section. That’s the last thing I want, but I also don’t feel comfortable going home.” I felt the need to stay, but at the same time, I was getting brick-walled by these providers that were saying, “No. There’s no option.” Even with my doula there asking them hundreds of questions of, “Can I do this? What about this?”I was having contractions, but they weren’t consistent at the time. I wasn’t in active labor, and so they couldn’t really do anything besides give me time which they weren’t going to do because I was 42 weeks and I’d had two C-sections. I needed to be delivered now in their heads. Meagan: Yeah, even though nothing was saying that. Rachel: Nothing was wrong. Baby and I were fine. There were no issues, but this provider was just stone-walled. He was not changing his mind even after finding out what I was dilated to. Didn’t change anything. I just was again, devastated. Like, “What do you mean I have no option? You’re totally ripping it away basically.” In my head, I still felt like I was able to. There was nothing dire that was happening that would prevent me, but I was still being told, “No. It’s not an option.” I, unfortunately, went along with it and signed the documents to have another C-section. It happened the morning after because they needed more OBs on staff. I ended up having a total of four surgeons during my C-section, my third C-section which probably was a great idea because I had a lot of scar tissue with all of the seromas and the rough recovery from my second. There was a lot of scar tissue that was in the way and whatnot that they had to cut away. It took about 40 minutes to get to my son during that delivery. He did have to be intubated in the OR, but by the time they get down the hall going to the NICU, he had already pulled out the tube. It didn’t last long and he was fine. He had to be, based on their protocol, on oxygen for a certain amount of time, and then they were able to pull him off and whatnot. I didn’t get to hold him until a little after he was 24 hours old. That was rough. After he got out and they cut away all of the scar tissue, they put me back together and everything was fine. I healed amazingly and I had a great recovery with that one. He was 9 pounds, 9 ounces at 42 weeks and a day. He was technically smaller than my second son who was 9 pounds, 3 ounces at 39 weeks. We were expecting him to be bigger honestly but he wasn’t. He was a great chunky baby and healthy. Everything was great with him after the initial shock of it all. His issues with breathing initially very well could have been from those four surgeons putting all of that weight on me during delivery and getting him out. After all of that, I decided that enough was enough. I told my midwife when I first contacted her that I will never step foot in a hospital again unless there is a true emergency because I just don’t ever want to be in that position where I feel like somebody is revoking an option that is still a valid option. Meagan: Yeah. Rachel: That feeling of your brain telling you, “You can do it. What are you talking about? You can do it,” but then everybody else in the room is saying, “No. You can’t.” It’s like I was forced in a way and unfortunately, that’s just the way that it was. After that, I just knew that if I were to have a fourth, it would be a redeeming, healing birth and I wasn’t allowing anyone or anything to get involved. It was November of last year, I found out I was pregnant. I was actually going through a weight-loss program because I was planning on having weight-loss surgery and I found out I was pregnant, so we put all of that on hold. I contacted my midwife immediately and she said basically that there was nothing that was going to get in the way. She was totally on board. She tells me now that even though I didn’t hire her for my third, as a midwife, she felt like she failed me in that birth because she wasn’t involved in the end. If she would have known that I was in that position, she would have stepped in. I wish I would have reached out to her, but I didn’t unfortunately. But with my fourth, I had her involved the entire pregnancy. I had prenatals with her. I was actually going to an OB just so that insurance could cover the initial ultrasounds because I did want with it being my third, again, I wanted to make sure that everything was fine. Everything was fine. At 22 or 23 weeks, I just ghosted that OB because as soon as they started saying, “We’re going to do this at the next appointment for the baby,” I’m just like, “Nope. You’re not telling me to do nothing.” I did their blood tests, but I never did anything else. I never did the glucose. I never did any of the other testing or vaccines or anything that they were pushing on me. I just wasn’t going to have that. So I ghosted them and we continued our prenatal visits with the midwife. Everything was great. I actually wasn’t going to find out what we were having. I did get the blood test results at 12 weeks and I told my closest friends, but my husband and I didn’t know. I was in this position where I was going to tell all of them because I had a girl and then two boys. So I was like, “If it’s a boy,” and in my head, I was convinced that it was a boy.I was like, “I’m just going to have another boy. I have everything for the boys. It’s fine.” I kept everything, but then in my head, I’m like, “If it’s a girl, I’m screwed. I’ve got to start over from scratch.” I was like, “Well, if I find out now,” in my head, it was already a boy, so I was just in this battle. I was like, “Do I wait or do I not? It would be the greatest surprise of life if I wait until birth.” But at the same time, I knew that if it was going to be a girl, which, in my head, it wasn’t going to be, I was going to have to start over. I was going to panic. I want to be prepared for a girl if it is a girl because I want to buy all of the things. So I tell my friends. They all find out. Nobody spills the beans to me, and then I started getting these little inklings in the weeks. I waited four months before I found out after we had the results. I could have known by the click of a button, but I didn’t. I refrained, but I started getting these inklings of, “It might just be a girl.” I found a massive amount of clearance girls' stuff for a dollar each at Walmart. Little things. I’m like, “Mmm, it might just be a girl,” and I bought all of it. I was like, “It’s probably a boy, but I’ll buy it all just in case.”Meagan: Just in case, yeah. Rachel: All of my friends are trying not to give it away because I told them all. You know, if it’s a boy, it’s fine. I’ll still use them. Most of it was towels and things like that. I didn’t know anybody who was having a girl. I just thought I would donate it if it was a girl. My friend took me out to lunch. I decided, “Do a reveal to me somehow because that way it is still a surprise and I won’t be disappointed if it is one way or another.” I was going to love the baby the same. I’ve had two boys and a girl, so I had the experience of both. So I was like, “Whatever it is, it is. Nothing is going to change whether I find out today or in two or three months when he or she is born.” In my head, it was still a boy. We went out to lunch and my friend called the bartender over to make a virgin drink in the color that it was going to be. Meagan: Aww, that’s cute. Rachel: We went to lunch and she took a picture of me when I found out. I bawled. I looked at her because I thought she ordered it for herself. She orders drinks for herself. She just starts looking at me and staring at me as soon as the bartender set the drink down. She was like, “Do you know what this means?” I was like, “What? What kind of drink did you get?” She was like, “Do you know what this means?” I was like, “Wait. Is it a girl?” And I just started bawling. I was like, “No it’s not. It’s not a girl. There’s no way.” We wanted a girl so bad. Having two of each would perfectly end everything. I was convinced that it wasn’t. I was like, “This has to be wrong,” and immediately, before we even left that little diner, I called and had a same-day ultrasound scheduled with a private ultrasound place to confirm that it was a girl. We went straight over there and sure enough, it was a girl. I was like, “I still don’t believe it. I really don’t.” In my head, it was so clear as day that it was going to be a boy. I think, in my head, I was doing that to make myself feel better because I knew I wanted a girl so badly. That was exciting. We got a girl. Our fourth is a girl. I had a great pregnancy. I did start prodromal labor again, unfortunately, probably around 37 weeks. I knew I had started to drop because she started to “disappear” every time I took a picture. I had no belly anymore. People were like, “Did you have the baby already?” I’m like, “No, still pregnant. She’s just hiding.” Even my midwife was hopeful that it was an indication that I was going to go early. Unfortunately, that didn’t happen. I actually tested positive for COVID the week of my due date. Meagan: Of course. Rachel: And the AC in our house went out. This is the middle of July. We were out of our house. We were in a hotel for three nights and then four more nights at my in-laws’ house. This was the week of my delivery or the week of my due date. So I was like, “Uh-uh.” I was very upset by the fact that I could possibly have a random hotel or my in-laws' address on the birth certificate and that was wigging me out. I was like, “No. I built this house that we live in. I want the address on the birth certificate to be our home. I want to deliver at home.” The thought of having my first delivery at some random location, I think, put me off. I didn’t really have any prodromal labor, thank God, during the week that we were away from home and nothing really happened. We get back home the week of 41 weeks. That Tuesday after we got back, I mowed my lawn with my zero-return mower and the bumpiness of it started more prodromal labor. Really, it’s like it never went away, though. My prodromal labor was really like early labor but took forever. It started that night. The next day, I was 40 weeks and 4 days on a Wednesday. I had a little baby shower with my office at my real estate office because I’m a real estate agent here locally. We had a little baby shower that week and I lost my mucus plug before I left the office, part of it. Every day after that, I would lose more of it, and then that Sunday after, I was 41 and 2 days. I lost some bloody show. Meagan: You started having bloody show, yeah. Rachel: Yeah, but every day I was having these contractions usually at night. They were painful. It wasn’t until I started losing my bloody show that they started to wrap around my back. That last week was pretty miserable. I wasn’t sleeping. I couldn’t lie down. The last few days, I couldn’t lie down on my side anymore because every time I would lay on my side, it was very frequent which was great that it was progressing, but I just needed relief. I was changing positions. My favorite position, which was kind of silly, was the only position I could find. I have a picture of me sitting on my ball leaning up to the end of my bed with a pillow behind my head. I was sitting, it was almost like I was in a recliner which, I wish we had a recliner here but we don’t. I was sitting on the birth ball with my feet on the ground and leaning back onto my bed. I was able to get 20-30 minute breaks between contractions. That’s the only time I slept for the last four days in that position because it just never ended.Any time I was up and awake and doing stuff throughout the day, I was still getting the kids ready. I have three other kids here and was still doing daily activities, but the last couple of days, I was so exhausted and miserable that I just was reclused in my room. I didn’t open my door. I didn’t want to do anything besides have a baby. I was miserable, tired, uncomfortable, and in pain. I was in and out of the bath. I took several baths a day, but when the contractions would get going, I wasn’t comfortable there anymore. It wasn’t until, I’d have to look back at my text messages with my midwife, but two days before I actually had her, I really thought I was going to go into labor because I just had this shift in feeling where I was having a lot of back labor, a lot. It was only happening in my back in a way. I could handle my front cramping, but my back was uncontrollable. I just wanted to cry. No position was comfortable. The same thing, I couldn’t sleep. I get through it. I get breaks here and there. The night before I had her, I literally didn’t sleep at all. I didn’t have any breaks between contractions. I stayed awake. I was pretty miserable. I was laid up in the morning and all afternoon. I didn’t leave my bed. I put on those little diaper things. I didn’t even care. I was going to pee on myself. I didn’t care. I didn’t want to move. I just sat on my bed and leaned up against some pillows and this rubber dinosaur thing that my kids had. It was kind of in the shape of a peanut ball. It’s about the same size. I would lean up against that on the wall of my bed. I basically sat there for hours. I basically laid there watching TV and just contracting the entire time. I was moaning through some of them, but it wasn’t until I got up to go to the bathroom that I felt something. I was like, “Mmm, that’s weird.” I got up. It was probably about 1:00. I go to the bathroom and I wipe and I feel my bag bulging. I feel it. Meagan: Ooh. Oh. Rachel: Yeah, feel it bulging. It wasn’t all the way out, but I could feel it there. I was like, “Oop.” I texted the midwife and I was like, “You probably should come over because the bag is bulging.” That was my first sure sign that it was happening soon. That was the first time that I was like, “Okay. The end is near. I can start to feel excited again,” because I was just in this dread of in-between contractions of just no relief and annoyed that it was taking so long. It was 42 weeks and a day, finally felt some progress. My bag starts bulging at 1:00 and I’m excited, telling everybody, updating everyone, and then probably about an hour and a half later, the midwife gets there. She’s trying to get me into a good mental state, getting all of the kids out of the house. My dad ended up taking the kids and my other three. My roommate here took her two boys and they went fishing and did some other stuff, and got out of the house, so that really helped with the chaos. I was able to relax a little bit more. It got quiet. I turned on some music. I was in and out of the bath. I just couldn’t get comfortable. I really wanted a water birth, but I was really just trying to focus on following my body, listening to what I needed, and getting comfortable where I was. Meagan: However you could. Rachel: Yeah, really. The only place, again, that I could get comfortable was on my birth ball. I spent pretty much the entire time there. My midwife did leave and sat in the driveway for a little bit because she feels like in a way, that birth is to be undisturbed as far as her presence. She sometimes feels like she doesn’t need to be there. So she did sit in the driveway for a little while just to give me time alone. I didn’t mind that, but I was texting her and she was like, “Anytime you want me to come back, just let me know.” I was like, “I enjoy the company.” My husband was in the other room playing a game. Like I said, anytime I’m in pain and whatnot, he’s just not good. In fact, he still hasn’t watched the birth videos. He won’t. I’m going to get him to one of these days just to have him see it all. He was there when it happened, but he didn’t want to see anything. So around 3:45, I get in the bath while the midwife was in the driveway and I noticed and felt that my water bag was out further. It was sticking out. I could feel it from the outside. I was curious about it. I kept telling my midwife, “It’s still bulging and I can feel it.” At that time, she was kind of skeptical. She was like, “Are you sure it’s the bag? Or whatever.” I was like, “No, I’m pretty sure. It feels like a water balloon to me.” It was squeaky-rubbery. In my head, that’s how I felt like it was. I get my phone to take a picture and I took a video because I couldn’t reach the button, so I have a video of my bags bulging. As soon as I get the phone down there, it pops and bursts, so I have a video of my bags bursting. Meagan: That’s amazing. Rachel: Yeah, so I have a quick video of that. I was shocked, but yeah. I posted that before the baby was even born on our unassisted group on Facebook and everybody was like, “Oh my god, I’ve never seen that before.” A lot of people haven’t ever even seen a bag. Most bags break when they are still inside or it will be when the head is right there. There was nothing there, but it was pretty cool. My midwife said that she was googling, “How dilated do you have to be to have your bags so far out?” We had no idea. We didn’t do any cervical checks or anything like that. It was all just a guessing game, but that was probably about 3:45-4:00 when my bags officially burst. And then after that, it was just kind of like, “Okay. Now it’s really going to happen today.” Again, I wasn’t really crying or in a lot of pain. I mean, it was uncomfortable, but I had a very– to me, in my head, vaginal delivery, I guess because of the media and all of the videos and stuff I’ve seen, I thought I was going to be more vocal and in a lot more pain. I thought it was going to be more exaggerated than it was. To me, it felt like it was just going to keep going. I was expecting it to increase or intensify, but I think also that the days and days and days of prodromal labor numbed me to it all maybe. I don’t know. In my head, I was like, “I’ve got a long way to go. This is not that bad,” but my midwife started to notice certain cues as I was laboring like different sounds I was making and things like that that she knew that we were getting close. But again, to me, it was all the same. It was no different. I couldn’t distinguish one contraction that was more intense than the other or anything like that. I just sat on my birth ball and leaned onto the wooden vanity that I had in my bathroom. The crease in the wood on the shelf was hitting me in the palm, kind of like how people use the comb technique. That’s kind of how I used it in a way to counter any kind of pain I was feeling. My midwife was sitting in front of me. She actually had a folding chair we got her and she was sitting in the shower. We have a curb-less shower. She was facing me and taking notes. Her assistant was texting her and she was just giving her updates. I have all of those screenshots. It’s really cute to see, “She’s a warrior.” They were just hyping me up through text. It was so cool. I didn’t get to see any of those until after the birth and she sent me everything. She was taking pictures of me during contractions and little videos and stuff because she knew I was going to want that, but also, it was helping her little intern learn through my experience too. We get through– it was probably 8:00ish by the time I just couldn’t get comfortable. I felt like I needed to get off of the ball. I was going to get in the bath. That lasted all of three seconds and I drained the water. I was like, “Not going to happen.” I couldn’t sit. I couldn’t lean. I couldn’t do anything in the water. I was not comfortable so I immediately got out. I tried to sit on the toilet and the contractions were way too intense. I couldn’t do it. I wanted to crawl up the wall. I had my husband lean in front of me and I couldn’t even get up off the toilet because every time– that’s when I knew that things were progressing really fast. I needed to get comfortable as soon as I could. I tried to sit back on my ball and I was comfortable, but I felt like the pressure– I needed to get off my butt. I moved onto my bed and as soon as I got on my knees and pillows in front of me, I just started feeling the urge to push. It all started probably at about 9:00-9:15.I only pushed for about 15 minutes. In the last five minutes or so, her head was out, but we were trying to get her shoulders out. My midwife reached in just to check to see if there was a cord around the neck or anything like that. There wasn’t a cord, but as soon as she stuck a couple of fingers in to check for the cord, her shoulder popped out and she just shot out. It was at 9:31 when she was born. Immediately following her, my midwife says, was three gallons of water. It came in waves. Unfortunately, I didn’t have a mattress protector on my mattress, so that was a regret, but it’s fine. They used literally every towel in the house and every chux pad that we had left and it was still seeping through my bed. They tried. As soon as they got her out, she was fine. She was crying right away, but when I went to turn over from my knees to my back, I turned over without them realizing that I was turning over and my midwife was holding the baby. When I turned over, her cord snapped, so it was kind of this quick, frantic, “Get the cord clamp!” My husband was standing in the corner and I just remember looking at him. He was panicked. He was like, “Oh my god.” He was traumatized by the last three C-sections.With my third, when he followed the baby to the NICU, he turned to me and said, “Please don’t die.” He was traumatized. I think, after my third, I knew that not only could I not have another C-section, I couldn’t put my husband through it. I felt bad the moment after my fourth was born that I was now traumatizing him again. But this time was all under control. They just got the clamp. It was fine. As soon as I got turned over, they moved the baby to me. Within five to ten minutes, the placenta came out. Everything was fine. Everything went great. I didn’t have any bleeding really. I barely tore. Probably about 30 minutes after she was born, we weighed her. We all took our guesses. I was guessing 9,7 only because my birthday is September 7th and I was like, “My boys were 9. I’ll just do it in the middle.” And no. From the moment she came out, my midwife was like, “This is an 11-pound baby.” I said, “No way. Absolutely no way, an 11-pound baby.” Everybody else in the room was guessing in the 9’s, low 10’s. We get out the scale and sure enough, she’s 11,1. My midwife was like, “I told you.” I didn’t believe it. After the midwife left, I had my husband hold her and weigh her on the scale, then put her down and weigh on the scale again and sure enough, she was 11 pounds. I was like, “What!” I was like, “Did I really just do that and didn’t even really tear?” Within a few days, I didn’t even feel the tear anymore. It was already healed. And so, yeah. Honestly, it took me several days. It still doesn’t really hit me now, but I had the birth that I’ve always wanted. I feel like I was expecting it to be worse. I know that it sounds weird, but I was expecting to have to scream, cry, or be in excruciating pain. I was expecting there to be more going on, but it was like this, not an out-of-body experience, but I felt like I was living through someone– maybe it was out-of-body. I was expecting more of it. After it was done, I was like, “That’s it?” You know? Like, “That’s all?”Meagan: That’s all? Wait. Rachel: Yeah. I just was expecting more. I don’t know why. Maybe it’s just because in my head, I’ve worked it up for so many years expecting this and I watched so many birth videos and things like that. I just wanted to so badly, but in my head, it was going to go such a different way. I mean, it was great, but I was expecting more as in it to be worse. Meagan: Yeah, right. Rachel: But, no. I had an amazing delivery. The entire time, I was supported by my loved ones and my midwife. My midwife’s assistant got there 30 minutes before she was born, right when we were getting on the bed and getting comfortable with the pillows and stuff. She came in and it was the perfect time because that apprentice assistant had also had three C-sections and a home birth with my midwife. It was almost like I got to experience what she did and she got to see it through another person. Meagan: Yeah, I love it. Rachel: Yeah, and I think my midwife put it this way. She got to give me what she experienced herself with my midwife. The same midwife delivered her baby at home. Meagan: So awesome. So awesome. Rachel: We both got to get that experience and it was healing for me, but I think it was also healing for her especially because she had those preconceived beliefs about weight that would interfere with my birth and it went fine. She had some fears lingering with that and for her to witness it and see that women like myself have just as much strength as anyone else. I’ve shared my birth videos with people and they are shocked that I am quiet and I seem calm. I really felt that way. I didn’t have any pain. I don’t remember feeling any pain. I just remember feeling it burn during pushing, but it wasn’t me pushing. The only push that I forced out was at the very end because we were concerned about her shoulders being stuck because we knew that she was big by the time her head came out. She didn’t have any molding or anything like that. It came out round as all could be. By that time, we realized that there was a possibility of her shoulders getting stuck, but no. They just came right out. She was fine. It was just a very healing experience. Redeeming in a way. I love that word. It was redemption. Meagan: Absolutely. Rachel: People keep saying, “Don’t you just want to rub it in all of your providers’ faces?” And honestly, I do. I wish more women like myself could experience this because I feel like the option is taken away even though it shouldn’t be. I have friends that have felt the very same thing as myself, that bait and switch. Even personally, locally, they feel like they never got the option. It just makes me, I don’t want to say angry, but it is angering for sure. I just wish that more women would try to push to experience this or find a provider like my own that refused to believe that I couldn’t do it until something was shown that was truly indicative that something was interfering. But because this option is taken away from so many women, it’s even harder for those of us that push for it to get it. Even fewer midwives are willing to take on plus-size women. I was over 415 pounds on the day of delivery. When people think of that, I mean, I carry it well. I’m 5’8”. I’m very proportioned. I have no mobility issues. I have no pain or any issues with my joints or anything like that. I’m very healthy and strong, but my weight is my weight and my BMI is what it is. That’s what providers see. They don’t see my body. They don’t see my abilities, my physical strength. They don’t see any of that. Unfortunately, for many women, it’s the same. Even with mobility issues or things like that, it doesn’t interfere with your cervix. It doesn’t interfere with your uterus or the biology of birth itself. I wish that wouldn’t hold people back. Yes, there are risks associated with your weight and being bigger, but there should be more than just the number that predetermines how you should birth. Meagan: Yes. Rachel: And unfortunately, with a lot of providers, even midwives, it is about the number on the paper. I’m grateful that my midwife refused to just see the number because she knew what I weighed. I told her. I was honest. She knows me and my ability. I have three kids. I am active with them. I can squat for days. I will squat competition you and beat you. I just have strength in my body. Regardless of my weight, I have the ability to do more than a number on a scale. Meagan: Yeah. I love that. I love that you said that because there is a slightly increased risk for BMI over 30, but that doesn’t mean you can’t do it. Even with those risks being increased, it should be noted that ACOG, RCOG, and SCOG still don’t say that it means that you have to have an automatic Cesarean. It doesn’t mean that you can’t do it. We actually have a blog all about it. We talk about it. We have a plus-sized blog and we will make sure that it is in the show notes. It is possible. Stand up for yourself. You were saying, “I’ll take you on.” Don’t judge a book by its cover. Just because someone is plus-sized doesn’t mean they don’t have the ability to do what some people think is unachievable. Rachel: Right. I mean, yeah. Not that I think their ability shouldn’t be tested–Meagan: Right, exactly. True, yes. Rachel: My body was tested over and over and over with my third being with my size, but I feel like there should be an obvious distinction between somebody that physically can’t, that may have some biological issues that may interfere with– maybe their pelvis was broken at one point and things like that that are seriously considered. But just because of my weight, just because of this, which is all an assumption and unfortunately, those assumptions somehow become fact, and that just because of a number or my size or whatever automatically means that my cervix doesn’t work or that my uterus is incompetent or something. In my brain, it doesn’t make sense. Yeah. That’s what I refuse to allow medical providers or people in general, even family that had doubts about my abilities which is all out of fear. Meagan: Yeah, and uneducated.Rachel: Yeah or just been misguided, or told certain things about it. Everybody that I have talked to is like, “Oh, I thought you always had to have a C-section after you had one.” That whole “once a C-section always a C-section”, is like no. My midwife herself has delivered a home birth after 7 C-sections. It happens. Her body didn’t forget how to birth. It just was not given the chance. Meagan: Doubted, yeah. Rachel: My midwife does more VBACs or home births, she’ll even go to the hospital if you want to go the hospital, but she does more HBACs than regular first-time moms or repeat vaginal births. She takes on people that nobody else will take on because she wants to be that outlet and she has this heritage midwife training that she’s doing to extend her knowledge and her outreach to more midwives so that they will start taking on. She educates on the true risks of VBACs and things like that and that they aren’t to be feared. A lot of people have a lot of fear somehow that every time a woman births after a C-section that her uterus is just going to explode or something. That’s just not how it works. Meagan: Right. Rachel: She has a lot of insight and experience with VBACs. She is a wealth of knowledge and I appreciate her so much for advocating for those like myself and giving us a chance when nobody else will. Big huge props to my midwife for that.Meagan: Absolutely. Rachel: It’s just been an amazing experience. Sitting here with my baby who is three weeks old now which, to me, it’s gone by way too fast. I can see maybe a week, but three is– no. She’s still little. She had slow gaining after I had her because my milk came in about four days after she was born. I mean, she was a big girl. She was pretty chunky. She had a lot to lose. She did lose a little over a pound, but she’s back up there now and eating like crazy. She’s healthy and great. Nothing wrong with her or myself. I feel amazing. I’ve been out and about since day three after I had her. I was taking my kids to school. I had the meet-the-teacher night four days after she was born, so we all went together. Even the day before that, I went out to lunch with just the baby and me. I wasn’t in any pain and it was a whole different experience having a vaginal birth than a C-section because I wasn’t cut open. I didn’t have an open sore. Meagan: Right. Recovery was better. Rachel: Yeah. I didn’t feel like– I mean, yes. I had pain but it was only when I nursed. It was just the initial pains the first few days and then obviously when I went pee, it burned. But I got some numbing spray that helped with that. I tell people every time I’m out. “How are you out? I was still on the couch.” I’m like, “Don’t let it fool you. I’m still wearing a diaper.” But physically, I feel amazing.Meagan: Good. Rachel: It’s the polar opposite and I wish I could have had this experience for every one of them, but in a way, it makes this one that much more special because I didn’t get that with the first three. I’ve learned so much more about myself and I’ve gained a lot more strength and confidence in myself after my second, and then with the third unassisted pregnancy and then a third repeat C-section, I think that really just put me over the edge where I just had this empowerment in a way that I knew I was going to get the birth that I wanted and nothing was going to get in the way. I just had this peace about it. It was really hard the last few days especially, just because I had such a long prodromal journey in the end. It lasted over two weeks and I was just miserable. But that last day, I really started just to get that peace back. Meagan: Good. Yeah, I love that. Rachel: It was going to happen. It was going to happen. It was going to happen the way it was meant to happen and it just went. I got happy again once my bag started bulging. I was like, “All right. We’re going.”Meagan: We’ve got this. Rachel: I was happy because before, it was a dreadful journey the last few weeks. Every time I thought it was going to happen, it didn’t. I got amped up and got let down over and over. But I knew that my body needed that time. It really helped, I think, with the pain. Even though it lasted forever and I was uncomfortable and whatnot, I think in the very end, I think that really helped with the management of the pain just because I was expecting it to get worse and it never did. I had that peace and calm through the whole end of my active labor. Even through transition, which looking back now, I can see when that happened, but yeah. I really think the long prodromal journey played a huge part. Maybe my body just needed extra time to mold and transition and expand and whatnot because it had never done it before. Meagan: Yep. We’ve just got to allow our bodies time and peace. Well, you’re amazing. Rachel: Even if I had gone into labor with my first or my second, it’s very possible that I could have wound right back up as a C-section because my body just naturally needs more time. Looking back, I feel like I don’t think anything would have changed. Meagan: Yeah. Rachel: I think that if I would have gone through labor before and it ended up in a C-section, I feel like maybe that would make me doubt myself more looking back. Just reflecting on it, I just feel like maybe if I had done it and then ended up in a C-section, maybe I would have doubted myself more and this is just the way that my journey has had to come to have that confidence in myself. I’m very much that person where it’s like, if you tell me I can’t do something, I’ll do it and stare you down in the face and laugh at you afterward kind of thing. Like, “Oh. Do you think I can’t? Watch me.”Meagan: Right.Rachel: I feel like maybe that was just the way my journey was supposed to be and this way, I have a little bit more of an impact on my experience for people. I’ve had three Cesarean births and I had a home birth of an 11-pound baby on my bed in my house. Meagan: Yes. Oh, so amazing. So amazing. Rachel: Yeah. I just think it couldn’t have happened any better and I’m more than happy with how it ended up. I would do it over and over again, but my husband is pretty adamant that he is getting a vasectomy and he is done. Meagan: Oh well, hey. That happened to me too. Rachel: It hasn’t been scheduled and it hasn’t happened so you know, you never know. There might be a fifth. Meagan: Well, if another one comes, you just let us know. I really appreciate you so much for coming. I seriously loved it and it’s going to be amazing. Rachel: Aww, well thank you guys for having me and letting me share my story because I definitely want it to help others like myself.ClosingWould you like to be a guest on the podcast? Tell us about your experience at thevbaclink.com/share. For more information on all things VBAC including online and in-person VBAC classes, The VBAC Link blog, and Julie and Meagan’s bios, head over to thevbaclink.com. Congratulations on starting your journey of learning and discovery with The VBAC Link. Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-vbac-link/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands