Episode 257 Windsar's Birth Center VBAC After Twin B’s Cesarean Birth

“There was no fear. There was nothing traumatic about it. It was just healing and it was so empowering to know that my body could do that. It was an out-of-this-world experience.”Windsar has had three pregnancies and four wildly different deliveries. Her first birth was a medicated, vaginal delivery in a hospital. About 18 months later, Windsar became pregnant with identical twins. Shortly after twin A was born vaginally at 32 weeks, Windsar experienced a cord prolapse, and twin B was then born via emergency Cesarean. Windsar knew her next birth needed to be healing and redemptive. She did all she could to achieve an unmedicated VBAC and finally get the golden hour she never had with her three other babies. Her VBAC birth story is intense, empowering, and absolutely beautiful.Additional LinksNeeded WebsiteHow to VBAC: The Ultimate Prep Course for ParentsFull Transcript under Episode Details Meagan: Welcome, welcome to The VBAC Link. I am excited to be talking to you today with our friend, Windsar. Hello, Windsar. Welcome to the show. Windsar: Hello. Thanks for having me. Meagan: Absolutely. She has a story that is not something that we hear very often. We do have one person on the show that has had a similar scenario but actually, it was just her first two babies. Of course, it’s a VBAC, but it’s a twin birth where twin A is vaginal and twin B is Cesarean, then she went on to have a VBAC. So yeah, it’s not something that we hear about a ton or talk about but Windsar was just telling me something that I had heard but didn’t know if it was true, so I’m going to take it because she was told and had a twin birth. When they are identical, there is a higher chance, correct? Windsar: A higher chance of what specifically happened to me which was cord prolapse. Meagan: Right. Yep. I was going to say a higher chance of having this happen which would lead to a Cesarean and that’s cord prolapse. So when baby A came out, there was a whole bunch of room that was created. Baby B came, but the cord came first. Windsar: Mhmm. Review of the WeekMeagan: That is a very valid reason to have a Cesarean and get baby out. So we’re going to share your stories and your VBAC but of course, we have a Review of the Week. This review is from Janellemb142018. It says, “Perfect combination of data and stories.” It says, “I’m getting ready to attempt my VBAC after three C-sections this month.” Yay! It says, “I always wanted a VBAC, but my providers were what I know now to be more tolerant than supportive which resulted in me never getting the chance to attempt a VBAC. I stumbled across The VBAC Link and have now become a fierce advocate for myself.” Oh, I love that. “A fierce advocate”. That is what we want you guys to feel is that you can be a fierce advocate for yourself through learning from this podcast. It says, “This podcast arms you with the perfect balance of data and stories. The data has helped me make a better-informed decision and push back when providers and even loved ones at times try to fill me with fear. The stories are inspiring and make the data seem real. I know my VBAC is not guaranteed, but I feel like I’m in the driver’s seat which in itself is a better experience already. I am where I am today thanks to the resource like this amazing podcast.” Oh, thank you so much. You know, just like what she said. I know a VBAC isn’t guaranteed and sometimes it doesn’t end in a VBAC. That’s okay, right? Sometimes it doesn’t even end up with that and someone maybe might choose to switch their mind and say, “I want to have an elective Cesarean.” But what’s most important is that you find the information and feel that you have the data to make the best decision for you and your family. That is what this podcast is for. It’s to bring you guys empowerment through these stories, the data, and the knowledge so you can go out and make the best choice for you. Just a reminder, if you haven’t left a review, we love reviews. In fact, these reviews, you guys, make it possible for other people in the community to find this podcast. These reviews are so important. We are so grateful so if you haven’t had a chance yet, please leave a review. You can do it on Apple Podcasts, Google, or wherever. We would love your reviews. Windsar’s StoriesMeagan: Okay, cute Windsar. I heard that little baby in the background. Windsar: He’s noisy. Meagan: Oh, I love it. I love him being noisy. Those little coos and noises make me so happy. Welcome to the show. Windsar: Thank you. I’m so excited to share. Meagan: I’m so excited for you to share. Well, I’m going to turn the time over to you and let you start sharing your cute babies’ stories. Windsar: Okay, well my name is Windsar. I live in Austin, Texas. I’m married to my high school sweetheart and we have four kids. Our first is eight then we have twins that are identical twins that are six and then this new baby that is making all of the noise in the background will be four weeks in just a couple of days so he’s brand new. We’re still figuring things out. Meagan: Brand spanking new. Windsar: I’ve been pregnant three times and had four different deliveries. With my first child, a little girl, I had a medicated vaginal birth in the hospital. With my twins, I was medicated in the hospital and twin A came vaginally as you mentioned earlier. Twin B was an emergency C-section for a prolapse. Then this fourth baby, I had unmedicated in a birth center. So I’ll start with my oldest birth. I had the picture-perfect pregnancy. Actually, my OB was the son of the OB who delivered both me and my husband which was really special. Meagan: Really? That is really cool. Windsar: Mhmm, so his dad delivered both me and my husband. We had a great relationship with that OB. He was wonderful. If our daughter had been a boy, we were planning to name him after the doctor. That’s how close we were. We just had a wonderful relationship. Meagan: It just goes to show the impact he had on you guys. Windsar: Yes, but as I’ll say, it kind of clouded my judgment a little bit the day that we had her in regards to informed consent. I’ll get into that a little bit because it did shape my story for this baby’s birth eight years down the road. With her, I went into labor at 40 weeks and 1 day. It was very, very slow as it can be for first-time moms. When I got to the hospital, I was convinced that she was going to come out at any minute just based on the amount of pain I was in and I was 2 centimeters. It was a long night. They wound up putting me on Pit and I was able to sleep. At about 24 hours from the time I had my first contraction to the time that I had her was how long I was in labor. It was about 24 hours so not terrible, but a couple of things happened that changed this last delivery that I had revolving around informed consent. They broke my water without asking me. They just said, “Oh, we went ahead and broke your water,” which I didn’t know was something they could do without asking. They gave me an episiotomy and told me after the fact. Meagan: What?!Windsar: After she was out, he said, “I did just go ahead and give you a little cut there and I’m going to stitch you.” Those two things, I felt a little bit violated after the fact that they didn’t ask me or tell me the risks regarding each thing. Meagan: When they broke your water, was it during a cervical check? Windsar: Yep. Meagan: It was like, “Oh, oops. We broke your water.” Windsar: He literally said, “I went ahead and broke your water when I was in there.” Meagan: “I went ahead.” He actually did make that choice. Windsar: Yes. Again, I trusted this man implicitly so I was just like, “Okay.” Well, it wound up possibly causing a problem because my little girl had a lot of meconium when she was born. She was covered in it, like slick. They suspected meconium aspiration and I had about three minutes with her before they took her to the NICU so I missed that golden hour with her. That was really unfortunate. We didn’t have too many breastfeeding struggles, but as a first-time mom and missing that first hour with her, breastfeeding was more of a challenge than I had anticipated. But overall, when she was born, everybody in the delivery room laughed because I said, “That was easy!” My perception of it was that it was a positive birth experience. I don’t look back on that, besides the lack of informed consent, in any way that I needed to heal from. Meagan: Right. Windsar: About 16-18 months later– so she was born in Dallas then we moved to Northern Colorado so my next birth was with a different doctor in a different hospital. We got pregnant and at about six weeks, I started thinking that something was weird. I was teaching 3rd grade at the time and was having these insane heart palpitations that would stop me in my tracks and make me put my hands on my knees. I thought, “Something is weird here. Something is different.” I started to suspect it was twins. When I went in for my first appointment with this new OB at eight weeks, I said, “I think it’s twins. Can you give me a transvaginal ultrasound to see?” He said, “No. I only hear one heartbeat and your belly is looking normal to me so I think we’re good. It’s just one.” I said, “Okay, well if I come back and there’s two, I’m going to say, ‘I told you so.’” He said, “That’s fine. You can tell me ‘I told you so’.” So I went back at 13 weeks and what do you know? There are two babies in there. Identical. For the rest of my pregnancy, I was pretty heavily monitored for twin-to-twin transfusion, going in every two weeks and then once the school year thankfully ended, I started doing the non-stress tests. The day that I went into labor, I was 32 weeks and 3 days. I had a non-stress test and they said, “Everything looks okay, but baby A is acting a little strange so we want you to come back in two days instead of a week.” I said, “Okay,” but I wasn’t feeling any contractions. Nothing seemed terribly off. I went home. I had dinner. I went to bed and something woke me up in the middle of the night. I sat up and it was like a tidal wave with my water breaking. Meagan: Wow. Windsar: Like in the movies, just whoosh. Very calmly, my husband wasn’t in our room. I think he was out on the couch watching TV. I said, “My water broke. Get the baby ready. We’ve got to go to the hospital.” We didn’t have family there to help us yet. It was 11:30 at night. So we went to the hospital and they did everything that they could to stop the labor. They put me on magnesium which was terrible because it makes you so hot. This train was coming no matter what we did. There was no stopping it. Meagan: How many weeks again?Windsar: I delivered them at 32 and 4. When I got to the hospital, they were 32 and 3. Meagan: So preterm. Windsar: They were planning to induce me because they were identical at 37 weeks. They came 5 weeks before they were supposed to be induced. After several hours, I got an epidural because I knew that there was no chance for me to even try to go unmedicated in case there was an emergency. I got the epidural. We managed to get one of my former co-teachers to come and get our daughter. Literally, about 10 minutes before I told the nurse, “I feel like I have to go to the bathroom,” she looked down and baby A was coming out. She could see his head. Meagan: Oh my! Windsar: It was so quick. We handed our daughter off and they wheeled us so fast. Now, one thing I wanted to mention is that I had been begging for food since probably 1:00 AM. I was starving. So as they were wheeling me to the OR, tears were just streaming down my face and I was saying, “I’m so scared and I’m so hungry that I don’t feel like I have the strength to do this.” I was just bawling because my stomach was growling so much and I was starving. We got down there and they had me quickly sign some release that said I would consent to a C-section if necessary. I signed it and we started getting the rest of this baby A out. His head was basically already out when we got there. Meagan: Already out, crowning. Windsar: They turned my epidural down really, really low so I could feel. I had not prepared at all for any sensation down there and I could feel everything. I was screaming my head off and cussing. He was born. He was tiny. I’ve never seen such a tiny baby. He was 3 pounds, 9 ounces. Meagan: Oh, yeah. Itty bitty. Windsar: They gave him to me in a little warmer bag. It was like a little plastic bag. They put him on my chest. I was looking down at this tiny, tiny baby and they said, “Windsar, baby B’s cord has slipped down and we’re going to have to do an emergency C-section.” I don’t think I could even process that because I’m looking at this tiny baby and hearing those words. I think I just completely disassociated. Because of how vocal I was while I was having A, they said, “We’re going to turn your epidural up.” They turned it up so much that I had to hand off the baby because it felt like I was floating. They started doing the C-section and I was again, screaming throughout all that because I had never experienced a C-section. I could feel the pressure and I was just panicking. Baby A was born. In between when A was born and B was born, it was 26 minutes. I guess that time was them turning up the epidural trying to get me to calm down. Meagan: Were they holding cord inside? What were they doing with the cord?Windsar: They had a hand up holding the cord in. During that time, I started telling them that I was having trouble breathing. Looking back, I don’t know if I was having a flat-out anxiety attack or if the epidural had gotten too high– Meagan: Traveled up, yeah. Which is possible if they turned it up really high. Windsar: But I was panicking and screaming. What they kept saying to me was, “If you’re able to scream like that, you are breathing,” because I was yelling and cussing. So baby was born. They took both of them immediately to the NICU. Baby B was 5 pounds, 4 ounces so that’s why they think that they were preterm because there was growth restriction there that they hadn’t anticipated to be that great. Meagan: For Baby A. Windsar: So they whisked both those babies off. Husband went with them and I had to sit in this little room, I guess while they were weaning the epidural down and I was still complaining that I was having trouble breathing and still complaining that– sorry if you can hear him. He’s eating really loudly. Meagan: That is okay. We welcome the baby coos. Windsar: I was still complaining that I was having trouble breathing and swallowing specifically and then being like, “I’m so hungry. Can I have crackers? Can I have anything?” and they wouldn’t feed me. So that was their birth. They were in the NICU for 26 days which is not terrible for them being eight weeks early. Then they came home and were on oxygen for four weeks. I was able to pump exclusively for them but we were never able to have that breastfeeding relationship on my breast. I pumped exclusively for them for 13 months.Meagan: Wow. Good job! Windsar: I had pretty bad postpartum anxiety with my recovery with them both because of the trauma of the birth, the NICU stay, and then being attached to a pump plugged into a wall 20 hours a day with a toddler. It was just a lot. Fast forward, we wound up moving to Austin and we had a very big gap in between which has turned out to be wonderful. I started getting that feeling in my heart that I wanted another baby, so before I even got pregnant, I started planning what I wanted if I were to be blessed with another baby. I knew that I wanted a VBAC first and foremost. I knew that I wanted to go unmedicated. So before I even got pregnant, I started the mental prep by watching a million birth videos. That was my prep before I got pregnant just so that I could see what natural childbirth looked like. I found out I was pregnant in August and I had been seeing an OB here since we moved here about six years ago that is not VBAC friendly. I went in to him for my urine test to confirm the pregnancy and they said, “Okay, well we’ll see you again in however many weeks.” I said, “Actually, you won’t.” That was kind of my goodbye. Meagan: You’re like, “I’m leaving.” Windsar: Yep. I was like, “Thanks for confirming what I already knew, and see ya later.” So I immediately set up some interviews with doulas and asked them to share VBAC-friendly providers in the area. They both recommended the same practice. I wound up hiring an amazing doula. She has six children that she has all had unmedicated and she was just such a wonderful resource for me. When I was about eight weeks, I went and saw this VBAC-friendly provider for the first time. I do have to say from the get-go that I started seeing red flags that maybe she wasn’t going to be as supportive as I wanted. Tolerant, yes. Supportive, maybe not. Meagan: Just like the review today. Windsar: Yep, exactly like the review. One of the things I was up against was that I was going to turn 35 during this pregnancy so automatically now I was a VBAC candidate– Meagan: You old dinosaur you. Windsar: Yes and I was old. I even asked her, “How is my care going to change when that magical number comes?” She was like, “Well, we’re going to want to monitor you more.” Her office was 45 minutes away from our house and every time I would drive there, I was mentally preparing for a fight. That’s literally what I felt. I felt like I was gearing up for a fight with her about whatever it was– declining to use the glucose drink. I did the more natural version of that. That was a fight that I had to have with her to convince her that it would be okay. It was just every little thing that was a fight. She would only be with me for five minutes. I’d drive 45 minutes, sit in the waiting room for 15 or 20 or 30 and then see her for five. I just wasn’t feeling like I was going to get the birth I had been envisioning. Meagan: Right. Windsar: Around 26 weeks, I sent my doula my birth plan. It was basically a list that said, “No” stamped in red across it, all of the things I had planned to decline in the hospital. Then there was a list of things that I wanted too. She wrote me back and she said, “Windsar, I know that you have planned for a hospital birth, but looking at this birth plan, I just don’t think it’s going to go the way that you’re envisioning and have you thought about going to a birth center?”It was like that was all I needed to hear. It was like I needed her permission or something to look into that option. That day, I booked a tour with the birth center. That was on a Thursday. I was touring it on a Monday and I had fired my second OB in the pregnancy by the following Wednesday. It was very, very fast. I did wind up going back to the OB once and told her, “You know, I’m switching to a birth center. I just feel like I’m pushing up against a wall with you and that things are not going to go my way.” What she said to me was, “I’m a trained surgeon and I can only do what I’ve been taught.” Meagan: Oh, whoa. Then that’s my answer because you’re even talking about surgery when I’m wanting to VBAC. Windsar: I was like, “Okay.” Yep. Mhmm yep. Rewind, I forgot to mention this big thing. At 20 weeks, I had the anatomy scan and growth scan. Baby was in the 96th percentile. We got this fun diagnosis of large for gestational age. Both the maternal fetal medicine doctor and my OB started saying, “You know, if you’re going to have an 11-pound baby, I think that you should consider a C-section.” That was pretty much the biggest fight at that point that I was having. Like, “No. I believe our bodies are divinely divined and I will be able to birth this baby no matter how big he is.” She just kept pushing, “We’ll see how it goes. We’ll see how it goes.” So when she finally made the comment that she was a trained surgeon as I was saying goodbye to her, it was just like this weight lifted off of me like I wasn’t supposed to be here in the first place. I switched to the birth center and immediately felt at ease with the midwives there. I brought up large for gestational age and they were like, “Do not worry about it. You will be fine. You can birth the baby that you grow.” That was so comforting to me. Yeah, so now I guess I can get into talking about his birth. I was 38 weeks and 2 days when I went into labor. My husband and I actually had a really good friend in town from New York. He was staying at his parents’ house about an hour and half away from where we lived and wanted us to come and spend the day there. I was like, “Yeah. This baby’s not coming. Let’s do it.” My husband said, “Stop. I don’t think that’s a good idea for us to travel an hour and a half to go see this friend when you’re this far along in your pregnancy.” I was like, “It’s not going to happen tonight. It’s not going to happen tonight.” He was like, “Just in case, let’s have him come to us. We have three other kids. He has no kids.” So we wound up having him and his girlfriend and his parents come. We went out to dinner with them and had a great time. We came home. It was on a Sunday night. We put the kids to bed. For some reason, I was like, “I want ice cream with a Butterfinger,” which was a very weird craving for me. My husband even was like, “You want a candy bar? What?” I don’t know. The body wants what it wants. That’s what I needed at that time. So we get in bed and turn on a show. I’m laying there eating my ice cream and at one point, I get up and I’m like, “That’s weird. My pants feel wet.” Not like a mom that’s had three other kids wet, but pretty wet. So I was like, “Hmm. That’s odd.” I just changed my clothes and got back in bed. I kept feeling dampness on the mattress so I’m like, “What? Am I just laying here peeing?” Because when my water broke with the twins, it was a tidal wave. I just thought I was peeing myself. At one point, I went to the bathroom and I had read somewhere that amniotic fluid had a different smell. Meagan: Mhmm. A sweet smell. Windsar: So I pulled my pants down. I sniffed my undies and I was like, “That’s not pee.” I told my husband, “I think my water is dribbling, but I’m not sure.” He was like, “Well, okay. What do you want to do?” I said, “I don’t know. I want you to go to sleep. I think that is what I want you to do.” At this point, it was almost midnight or a little past. It was like, “You go to sleep and I’m going to figure out what is going on here if it’s my fluid or not.” I left our room and not much longer after that, I was standing in our kitchen and I involuntary felt a ton of fluid come out so I was like, “Okay.”Meagan: Water breaking. Windsar: This is definitely my water for sure. I went and put on a diaper and was like, “Here we go.” I had been so nervous the whole pregnancy that I would feel scared in labor just because of what had happened with the twins. Also, we’re 45 minutes away from the birth center and I had a lot of fear in my head about getting there on time, but I was just so calm. I was like, “This is happening. This is the day that I’ve been waiting for. Let’s do this.” Between midnight and 1:00, my water was continuing to flow and at about 1:00, I had a very small bloody show so I called my midwife and told her. She said, “Okay.” I wasn’t having any contractions. She said, “I want you to go to bed and go to sleep.” I wanted to say, “Lady, that’s not going to happen. I’m excited.” Meagan: It’s so hard. Windsar: Yeah. There’s no way I’m going to be able to sleep. But I did try to lay down and probably by 2:00, my contractions started up. At that point, it was over. There was no way I was going to be able to sleep. I was bustling around. I unloaded the dishwasher. I packed my kids’ lunches. I took three showers and every time I was in the shower, I was just visualizing what was going to happen once we got to the birth center. I was picturing the whole thing. I felt calm and such peace. At one point, I went out on our street and was curb walking. I did the Miles Circuit all by myself. I didn’t want my husband. I didn’t want to call my doula. I was like, “I’m just going to let the both of them sleep because I don’t need their support right now. I can do this.” Finally, around 5:45 AM, things were picking up really quickly and I called the doula and I said, “It’s happening. Don’t come over. We will meet you at the birth center. We will call you when we’re leaving.” She was like, “Okay. Go shower.” I was like, “I’ve already showered three times. No more showering for me.” In between 5:45 and 7:00, we got our big kids down, packed for school, and got them down to our neighbor’s house. I was doing all kinds of things, bouncing on my ball, on all fours just trying to stay comfortable. Around 7:00, my husband said, “Listen, I think we need to go because we’re going to hit traffic.” I don’t think I was completely ready to leave at that time, but I was like, “Good point. We don’t want to be stalled out in the car and go through transition or something.” We got in the car at 7:00. I was so concerned about him. I was like, “You need to eat breakfast,” so I made him stop for breakfast tacos on the way to the birth center. I was standing outside of the car holding onto the side of the car moaning and swaying. People were probably wondering what was going on. He got his breakfast tacos and we were off. We hit terrible traffic just as he had anticipated. I had my labor playlist going. I was singing and holding onto that handrail in the car and just breathing through my contractions. We got to the birth center at about 7:50. From door to door, it was just about 45 minutes despite the traffic. They checked me when I got there and I said, “Do not tell me if I’m anything below a 4 because it will discourage me and I’ll get inside my head. I don’t want to know.” They checked me. I was 5 centimeters and 100% effaced. They were like, “We can feel the baby. It’s go time. Go sit on the toilet.” My doula and I went into the bathroom and I sat backward on the toilet. That is where I went through transition and oh my goodness, that was interesting to feel that for the first time. I was sweaty and I was not getting any relief. I kept saying to Peggy, my doula, “They’re not stopping. They’re not stopping.” It was just contraction, contraction, contraction. Finally, I had moved to the birthing tub. I had really envisioned a water birth the entire pregnancy. I wanted to birth in the water. I was just– at that point, I had entered a different realm of consciousness. I had studied Hypnobirthing so I was doing all of the Hypnobirthing stuff. I got into the tub and I was in there for probably about 15 minutes when I said, “I need to push.” My doula was not sure that I was really there. She said, “Are you sure?” I was like, “Girl, go get the midwives right now. I am ready.” They came and I pushed in there for probably about eight minutes. I birthed his head in the tub and then the position that felt comfortable to me was one of my legs flat and then the other leg up. So on my bottom with one leg crossed in front of me and the other hiked up. I birthed his head like that, but was not really progressing from there so they wanted me to get out of the tub which was fun with a head sticking out. Meagan: Yes, I was going to say that’s gonna be interesting. Windsar: Yeah. I got out of the tub and waddled over onto the bed and got on all fours. I had two contractions on the bed and he was born. It was crazy and the first thing that I said when they handed him to me was, “You’re not big at all,” because he just felt so small to me. I had been so scared after that seed had been planted that he was going to be a monster, big baby. I think I was just shocked that he was so little. The second thing I said was, I looked up at my husband and said, “Oh my god, I did it.” I was just completely in awe of my body that I had done that. Meagan: Elated. Windsar: Yeah. He had a double nuchal cord and there was never any panic about it at all. The midwife said he had the longest cord she had ever seen so I’m just like that nuchal was a blessing. It’s protective against prolapse. Yeah. He was just perfect. He was 8 pounds, .5 ounce so a completely normal size, not big. It was just the most beautiful experience. We left four hours after he was born. We were like, “We’re ready to go home,” and we were back in time to pick up our older kids from school with a new baby in the car. Meagan: Wow. Isn’t that wild? That’s something that I loved about being in an out-of-hospital birth. It was like, “Okay, go home now.” I was like, “I get to go to my bed? That sounds delightful.” Windsar: Yes and there are not people coming in and out all night bothering you. It was just me and my baby. The big kids were coming in and out every once in a while, but it was just so wonderful. It truly was such a healing experience. There was no fear. There was nothing traumatic about it. It was just healing and it was so empowering to know that my body could do that. It was an out-of-this-world experience. All of my births were beautiful but it was just so impactful and I’m so grateful that I got to experience it like that. Meagan: I’m so grateful that you were as well and I’m so happy. It’s hard because I don’t ever want to say, “Change providers. Change providers,” as a bad thing. We love our providers. They’re all great but it’s not a one-size-fits-all and they don’t all meet our standards or our wishes or our desires. It’s really hard when you recognize that and then some people feel stuck. It’s hard to change. It’s hard to make that change. You went back and were like, “See ya. Peace out,” but you don’t even have to do that if you don’t want to. You can just go to a new provider and request your records. But it’s really hard to do so I’m so glad that you were able to follow your heart, trust your gut, and do what was best for you in this birth because yeah. It sounded like there were some red flags there. If you’re listening and you’re hearing red flags or you’re feeling red flags, know that it’s okay to switch. You don’t have to switch to out-of-hospital. You can still stay in the hospital or go to another provider, but it’s okay to switch. Like you, you switched. I switched at 24 weeks with my VBAC-after-two-Cesarean babe. I think back and I know I wouldn’t have had the same experience but I don’t know if I would have had as healing, as redemptive, and as peaceful of an experience or even a vaginal birth for that matter if I didn’t follow my gut at that time. Right? Windsar: Yeah. I thought about that a lot. Even if I had the exact same labor experience and had stayed in the hospital, from the time I got there to the time he was born was two hours but if I had been in the hospital, so much of the time would have been them forcing me to get an IV, them taking my temperature and just doing all of that triage stuff whereas at the birth center, for me, I was just able to labor in peace alone with my husband and doula. There was nothing that raised my adrenaline to cause me to slow down whereas if they were putting in the IV on me, putting the belly monitors, I know that would have stalled me out in the hospital. I was just grateful that I didn’t have to go that route this time. Meagan: Yes. Absolutely. Well, huge congratulations. Windsar: Thank you. Meagan: Thank you so much for sharing your story. Yeah. It’s just so important to walk away from a birth and feel confident and comfortable and at peace with the outcome. We know it doesn’t always happen, but if we can do things to advocate for ourselves and help that happen, let’s do it. Windsar: Yeah. Meagan: You matter enough. You matter enough to take care of you and do what’s best for you and your baby. Windsar: Yeah. It’s like, everybody always says, “Healthy mom and healthy baby is all that matters.” Of course, that’s true. You want healthy outcomes for both mom and baby, but also, I want to feel positive about my birth experience after the fact. I want to feel empowered and I really, truly wanted a redemptive experience this time as you said. Those things were important too.  Meagan: Yes, exactly. The whole “healthy mom, healthy baby” thing– I literally can’t stand it. Duh. Of course. No brainer there. But “healthy mom, healthy baby, good experience, positive outcome” is really still important. We can’t forget about those because we do hold onto these experiences whether we remember every detail or not, they are happening to our body. It’s happening to us, right? If we have someone come in and– talking about your first birth– just do things without your consent, it doesn’t feel good. It’s not going to leave us with a positive experience. Windsar: Right. I mean, this time is the first time out of three deliveries that I got that golden hour with my baby and our breastfeeding relationship has been so easy. I mean, he latched 15 minutes after he was born. That hour where we just laid there and I just stared at him and was like, “That’s who was in there this whole time.” I hadn’t had that before and it was magical. It was truly magical and I’m so grateful that I was able to finally experience that. Meagan: Absolutely. Well, huge congratulations. I’m so happy for you. Your baby is absolutely adorable. I know they can’t see your baby but I can see your baby and I love babies so much. Huge congrats again. Thank you so much for sharing and inspiring others. These stories– I really so wish that I had these stories and I’m so glad that we have these opportunities to share these stories with the listeners out there. Windsar: Yes. It makes all the difference to be able to hear the positive stories. It really, really does. Meagan: Absolutely. Windsar: So thank you so much for having me. Meagan: Thank youClosingWould you like to be a guest on the podcast? Tell us about your experience at thevbaclink.com/share. For more information on all things VBAC including online and in-person VBAC classes, The VBAC Link blog, and Meagan’s bio, head over to thevbaclink.com. Congratulations on starting your journey of learning and discovery with The VBAC Link.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-vbac-link/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands