Episode 266 Sabrina's VBAC + Operative Vaginal Delivery

Sabrina’s first birth was a traumatic crash Cesarean. She and her baby were thankfully perfectly healthy, but Sabrina was left with no desire to have any more kids. She didn’t realize how much her birth experience played into those feelings until she became pregnant with her second. Sabrina found The VBAC Link through another birth podcast and listened every day on her way to work starting at four weeks pregnant! The beautiful stories from Women of Strength gave her the encouragement to go for it. And Sabrina absolutely proved the fight that was within her. After two weeks of prodromal labor, over 48 hours of labor, and listening to her intuition as plans changed during labor which included some help with forceps, Sabrina achieved the VBAC she was fighting for. Even though her labor and birth were physically brutal, Sabrina immediately felt like she could do it all again. Additional LinksNeeded WebsiteThe Lactation NetworkHow to VBAC: The Ultimate Prep Course for ParentsFull Transcript under Episode Details Meagan: Welcome to The VBAC Link everybody. I am just so happy. I love reviews so much and want to encourage anyone who has maybe been with us for a while or has been listening to let us know your thoughts. Tell us what you think about The VBAC Link. Today, before we get into this review, I wanted to introduce our guest today. Her name is Sabrina. Hello. Sabrina: Hi. Meagan: It’s so fun to be here with you today. She jumped on and was like, “Oh, it’s so crazy. You were in my ear and now we’re here.” Sabrina: Yeah. It is crazy. Meagan: It’s so awesome though. I love when our guests come on and they are like, “I’ve literally been listening to you for so many years. This is so surreal.” It’s so fun. It’s just such an honor to have you guys sharing your stories because I want you to know that you guys are the reason why this podcast is amazing. Just saying. These storytellers are the reason why The VBAC Link is incredible and all of these professionals come on. They make this podcast what it is. Review of the WeekI’ll get into this review and then we’ll get into your story. This is from aliaholland. This was back in 2023 and it says, “Love the host.” Oh, that makes my heart sing. Sing and smile, apparently, my heart does a lot of things. It says, “I’m 35 weeks pregnant and planning an all-natural VBAC in the hospital. I’ve been listening to a few different podcasts but keep coming back to this show. The host is very interactive and nice to listen to. Format is a good blend of birth stories as well as good education.” Oh, that makes me happy and that is exactly what we want to have on the podcast. It is the birth stories and education. If you are out there and you are listening and you are a birth educator or you are a midwife or you are an OB or maybe an anesthesiologist and you work really heavily in the birth world and you think it would be cool to come on the podcast and talk about some education points, we would love that. Always feel free to reach out at [email protected]. Sabrina’s storiesMeagan: Okay, cute Sabrina. We are talking about two very dramatically different stories today within your own birth stories. I want to just, I don’t know if we need necessarily– what’s the word– a trigger warning, but at the same time, I think it’s really important to talk about how sometimes things just don’t go as planned, but then what we can overcome and how we can grow through experiences and have really, really great experiences. I was just telling Sabrina this before she got on. In her note, at the bottom as a reminder to this community, that doesn’t mean you failed. I love that message so much because I think so many times in this community, we do feel that feeling. Sometimes we don’t even just feel it, we are told that. Sabrina: Definitely. Meagan: Right? We are told. I want to turn the time over to you to share your stories. Sabrina: Perfect. Okay, well I have two little babies. They are two years apart and yes. I’ll just start obviously with my C-section story. I went into birth thinking, “I’m young. I can do it. This is easy. This is what I’m made to do.” Everything with my pregnancy with my first daughter was great. Nothing really happened and then at my 32-week midwife appointment, we were listening on the Doppler and her heart actually skipped some beats. It didn’t come to anything, but it kind of plays into the story a little later. I was just kind of like, “What’s that? Why can I notice this?”Meagan: Abnormalities here. Sabrina: I could hear it so obviously something was going on. We did an ultrasound and everything was fine, so no worries there. My labor started pretty good. I woke up and had that weird feeling that it was coming. My dog was following me around and all of that stuff, so I was like, “Okay. This is the day.” Meagan: Something is happening, yes. Sabrina: The baby is coming. My husband was at work, so I just labored at home. My contractions actually came on right away at 10 minutes apart and progressed like that. He came home probably around 4:00 in the afternoon and we live 45 minutes from a city with a hospital birth at. So I was like, “Okay, we should probably go to the city now.” We go there. I actually had to labor at my in-laws’ so that was quite fun because they are asking you, “Do you want water? Do you want food?” I’m like, “I want to be left alone right now.” We stayed there until about 9:00 PM. My midwife was called and she was like, “Oh, you’re only 3 centimeters.” I was like, “Okay.” She was like, “We’ll see you later tonight.” I was like, “All right.” My husband went to bed. 1:30 comes and I’ve been walking around for the last four hours.” I was like, “Okay, now.” Meagan: Exhausted. Sabrina: Yes. It has to be time now. I can go to the hospital. She comes. She’s like, “Yeah. You’re 5 centimeters. We can go now.” Oh, that’s my little baby. Meagan: That’s okay. Sabrina: We called one hospital that we were supposed to go to and they were actually full. It’s a blessing in disguise because we ended up going to a level 1 trauma hospital, so more advanced and actually probably helped with what happened to us. We go there. I’m still feeling good going through the motions. I wasn’t progressing very fast. This is where the interventions start. She asks if I want her to break my water. I obviously had no idea. I thought that was normal, so I was like, “Yeah, go ahead.” So she did and then as things do, they progressed quite quickly from there. That was probably at 3:00 in the morning. We got to about 6:00 in the morning and I was ready for an epidural. I was like, “This is way more than I imagined.” I’ve already been going about this for 20ish hours, so let’s do it. He came in. Everything was great. I felt great after that. I was like, “Okay, I can do this.” My contractions went from a minute apart to 10 minutes apart. I was like, “Okay well,” I didn’t know any better so I was chilling. My midwife was like, “Okay, we have to do something.” Meagan: They wanted to encourage labor to continue forward quicker. Sabrina; Yeah, exactly. I had no idea, so I was like, “Yeah. Let’s do something.” An OB comes in. We do Pitocin. We start it. Everything is going fine. We had a few dips, so they took it off and it wasn’t like anything was too concerning. She wasn’t recovering great after we took it off either. They said, “We’ll put in an internal monitor.” Meagan: Oh, an FSC. Fetal scalp electrode. Sabrina: Yeah, because she wasn’t recovering. They didn’t know if it was because they couldn’t find it with the belly ones or she was moving. I was like, “Okay.” We had it on for a little while and just hung out until she seemed stable, and I was still at 7 centimeters. Nothing had changed. Meagan: But still, that’s good. Sabrina: Yeah, it still wasn’t fast enough. They come back in and they’re like, “We’re going to start again.” This was probably 1:30. I’m like, “Okay, let’s start it.” They turn it on and probably within 5 minutes, there’s absolutely no heartbeat. There are two monitors on. They can’t find her. Meagan: So scary. Sabrina: I’m obviously hysterical because I can hear the machine not beeping. There’s nothing there. At that point, 15 people ran into the room. This one nurse comes running in. She’s like, “OR, right now.” I had no idea this was even an option. We get to the OR and all I remember is that this one nurse introduced herself to me and her name was also Sabrina. She’s like, “Okay, honey. Here we go.” I’m like, “Here we go, what? Where’s the baby? What’s going on?” She’s like, “You’re under general anesthetic. Your husband can’t come in. This is happening right now.” Obviously, I’m bawling my eyes out because I think my baby is no longer there. Meagan: Yeah. Sabrina: Yeah, super traumatic. My husband comes in. He’s crying. He’s like, “I can’t be in here. I can only give you a kiss. This is it. Good luck.” I was like, “Okay.” Meagan: They’re kind of taking a long time. Sabrina: It seems like a long time in the thing, but honestly– Meagan: It was probably quicker. Sabrina: They were doing everything. I could feel them putting the iodine on my stomach and everything like that. The midwife was like, “Sabrina, babies are born two ways, vaginally or C-section. You’re having this baby. It’s going to be fine.” That’s really all I remember. Meagan: Knocked out after that. Sabrina: Yeah. Mask on, obviously. You’re under general anesthetic. Yeah, I wake up. We didn’t know the sex of the baby. I had no idea I had a baby. I wake up and they’re like, “Sabrina, you had a baby.” I was like, “I did what? I had what?” They’re like, “Yeah, she’s with her dad.” I was like, “She? It’s a girl?” That feeling is the best feeling I had in the whole world. She was perfectly fine and there was nothing wrong with her heart at all. It just wasn’t handling the Pitocin and they got her out quick enough that they didn’t have to do any resuscitation or anything like that. Meagan: What were her APGARs? Do you remember? Sabrina: I don’t know, but she got to go be with her dad right away. Meagan: Interesting. Sabrina: Yeah. I actually have a video of her screaming that my midwife took. I was like, “That’s actually crazy.” Meagan: That is very interesting, yeah. Sabrina: Yeah, so I don’t know what was going on. She didn’t have any NICU stay or anything. She was perfect. They wheel me out. Obviously, I’m not very coherent. My husband is holding her and he’s like, “This is our baby.” I was like, “It’s a girl!” He was like, “Yeah, it is. She’s perfect.” Everything was great. I ended up having a hemorrhage during surgery. I had to stay for a while. Luckily, I didn’t need a blood transfusion, just iron transfusions. Yeah. That was it. I went home. I had the baby on Saturday and I went home on Tuesday. Meagan: Oh, okay. Sabrina: Everything was pretty good and that was my C-section story. Obviously, my midwife was like, “Everything that could go wrong went wrong, but you came out of it fine and so did she.” Meagan: Yeah. Yeah. Sabrina: Fast forward, I didn’t want another baby. I didn’t think it was trauma, I just didn’t want one. I couldn’t relate the two until I ended up with our surprise baby. Meagan: I bet. Sabrina: Three weeks before we were supposed to get married. Meagan: Oh my gosh. Sabrina: Yeah, we had a destination wedding planned in Mexico and I had a surprise pregnancy. It really struck me then that the reason I didn’t want a baby is that I didn’t want that fear happening again. I immediately started research and I was listening to actually a different podcast that you guys were a guest on. Meagan: Oh. Sabrina: Yeah, All About Pregnancy and Birth with Dr. Rankins. Meagan: Yeah, Nicole, yeah. Sabrina: Yeah, you guys were a guest and then I was like, “Oh, I should listen to them.” I was probably 4 weeks pregnant and I listened to every single episode on my drive to work every day. I was like, “This is what I’m doing.” It just gave me the encouragement to go for it. Yeah. We went ahead and we were trying for a VBAC. All of my family was like, “Mmm, are you sure?” “Yep. This is what I want. I don’t want to recover with a toddler and a newborn. My husband has to work. What am I gonna do?” I was definitely questioned a lot on it, but something the OB told me after my C-section was like, “You’re a great candidate for a VBAC because what went wrong wasn’t your fault. There is nothing wrong.” I mean, the too-small pelvis wrong thing that they say. There was nothing there that was bad. It was just her. So his pregnancy was great. I was anemic. I had iron infusions before I labored so if anything was to happen, we would be prepared for that. My midwife was super supportive. I came in at 10 weeks with all of the questions that I heard on The VBAC Link. What about induction? She was like, “We don’t induce until 41 and 3.” “What about all of these other things?” She was like, “No. This is what you want to do. You’re fine.” I was like, “Oh, okay.” So if anyone needs a midwife up in Canada in Calgary, Alberta specifically, Origins Midwifery is great. Everything went well. My first came early, so of course, when your second one comes late, it’s hard. I was 40 weeks pregnant. I had been having prodromal labor for two weeks. Meagan: Oh. Sabrina: I was waking up every night around the same time with contractions and was like, “Today’s the day. Okay. Today’s the day.” Meagan: That darn prodromal labor. Sabrina: Yep. My husband came home one week before it actually happened and was like, “Okay, let’s go.” I was like, “Oh, now they’re stopped. Sorry babe.” I was doing the 10,000 steps every day. I ate all of the dates. I ate all of the things just to make sure that I didn’t go through this again. I was like, “I’m ready.” Meagan: Yeah. You did all of the things to prepare. Sabrina: Yeah, literally everything I could do, I did. So 40 and 3 comes. It’s 1:00 in the morning. I wake up with contractions again. I was like, “Okay, this has to be it. We’re overdue now. Let’s go.” Yeah. I wake up. I’m like, “Okay.” I wait it out. They’re not super strong, but again, they started 10 minutes apart. I had a midwife appointment that day as well, so I was like, “Do I call her right now and be like, ‘Cancel your day or do I wait it out?’” My midwife appointment was in the early afternoon, so I dropped off my toddler and I went there. I was like, “Okay. I’m definitely in early labor. It’s been 12 hours now. I’m on a clock. I’m having contractions consistently for 10 minutes. I’ve tried a shower to stop them. I’ve gone out of the house. I’ve tried to scare them away. They’re not stopping.” She was like, “Okay, let’s do a check.” I was like, “Sure. Let’s do a check.” She’s like, “Okay, well you are 1 centimeter dilated.” I was like, “Are you kidding?” I’ve been doing this for two weeks already and now 12 hours of this and I’m only 1 centimeter dilated?” She was like, “Yes, but I can feel the contractions.” I was like, “Okay.” She was like, “So I will see you later.” Meagan: You’re like, “Okay.” Sabrina: A week later or tonight later? So we went home. She did do a sweep at that point just to see if it would stretch at all. She said that it did. I don’t know what it did, but I went home. I was like, “Okay. I’ll just keep going through it.” They hadn’t stopped. They were still 10 minutes apart. My husband came home at his normal time. There was no real rush. We hung out and made dinner. It was our last dinner as a family of three and I was super emotional about it. We put our kid to bed and I was like, “I can’t sleep. They’re already strong enough that I’m not sleeping, so now I’ve been going at this all day already.”1:00 in the morning comes and I’ve decided, “Okay. I’m going to have a shower. They’re getting pretty strong. I’m going to try to listen to HypnoBirthing tracks.” I wanted to labor at home as long as possible. I called my midwife. I was like, “Okay, things are changing. They are 5 minutes apart.” Again, we live 45 minutes from a hospital. She was like, “Do you want me to come check you or do you think you can keep waiting?” Meagan: That’s pretty cool that she was willing to come check you or even come see you. Sabrina: Yeah. I was like, “I don’t want you to have to drive all the way here and then drive all the way home and then have to drive to the hospital in a few hours.” I was like, “I’ll just keep going.” She was like, “Try another bath. Try another shower.” I sent my husband back to bed and I was like, “Okay. I’ll just keep going.” I kept going and I was actually in my daughter’s room. She was sleeping in our room. I was over her rocking chair just on my knees with my hands over. This was probably at 3:30 in the morning. I felt this weird change which I learned later was my water breaking, but there was no water. It was a weird feeling and I was like, “Oh, that’s really weird.” Yeah, so then I just kept walking around. I had more mucusy discharge so I was like, “Okay. This is not good now.” It’s 5:00 in the morning. My husband was still sleeping. I was like, “It’s time to wake up.” I’m out here moaning through them. We need to go to the city. We are ready to go. So we call her. She’s like, “Okay. They sound different.” I told her about the water. She was like, “Okay, there’s no fluid?” I was like, “No. There’s nothing coming out.” So she met us there at the hospital. It’s 6:00 AM at this point. She was like, “We’ll check you.” I’m like, “Great.” She was like, “I don’t see your waters, but I can confirm they’re broken.” “Oh, okay sure.” She was like, “You’re only 4 centimeters.” I was like, “Are you kidding me?” Meagan: Yeah, super frustrating. Sabrina: Yeah. 24 hours of consistent contractions and I’m only 4 centimeters? What? She was like, “Okay, because you’re not coping well and you live this far away, we’re going to admit you.” I was like, “Okay, fine.” So we got admitted. I was doing all of the walking and everything like that in our room and by 8:00, she checked me and I was 8 centimeters. I was like, “Oh, okay.” Two hours and I am 4 centimeters further along. Great. Let’s keep going. So I was at the point where they were so bad. I was so tired and I was like, “Okay, I want an epidural.” The midwife was like, “You just made it from 4 to 8 in a few hours. Keep going.” I was like, “Oh, okay.” I was over the bed, on the toilet, everywhere I could go and now, it was 12:00. I was like, “Okay. I am dying.” Meagan: So tired, I’m sure. Sabrina: Yeah. I’m crying at this point. I need an epidural. She’s like, “Okay, let me check you.” She’s like, “You’re still 8 centimeters.” I was like, “What? There’s no way. How did I progress so quickly to here from 4 to 8 and now I’m just stuck?” She’s like, “Okay. Give yourself a time. Give yourself a time limit until you can’t do it anymore.” I was like, “Okay. I’ll go until 2:00. Two more hours. I will just fight through this. At that point, if I’m not any different, call them.” 2:00 comes around and I was like, “Okay, I’m just going to push it a little longer. I really want it.” At 2:45, I was like, “All right, where am I at?” She was like, “You’re still 8.” So we called the anesthesiologist in. I had been doing all of the labor positions. I was on my hands and knees. I tried the peanut ball. I tried a birthing ball and nothing was helping.Meagan: Did you know his position? When she checked, could she tell his position at all? Sabrina: Not really, he was just there. That does play in. He does become asynclitic later on which explains even more of why nothing was happening. So then I was just going through the motions. I was like, “Okay. Maybe my body needs to rest. Maybe I just get it and things are going to happen.” I was very upset because I wanted no interventions. My husband was like, “Just do it, Sabrina. You’ve been at this for a long time.” They come in. It’s 3:30 and at this point, I’m throwing up. I was like, “Oh, this is transition.” It wasn’t. I was just tired and sick. Meagan: Exhausted. Sabrina: They’re like, “Okay.” They gave me the epidural and I was like, “Okay, I feel good. I’m just going to hang out and rest a little bit.” Yeah, then again, nothing happens. I thought I would get some rest and things would keep progressing fast and that was not true. So we were still 8 at about 6:00 PM. My midwife was like, “Okay, if your waters did break at 3:00 AM, you are coming up on a time limit here.” I was like, “Oh.” Meagan: Were you showing any signs of infection?Sabrina: Nothing. I felt good. His heart rate was good. I was just tired and emotional at that point. She was like, “We have to call in an OB.” I was like, “Okay.” She was like, “You have options.” She was like, “You have an option to have a C-section right now.” I was like, “Okay.” She was like, “Or you have the option to start Pitocin.” I was like, “I really don’t want that. I really don’t want it.” I cried about it for about an hour. My husband was like, “This is a different birth. This is a different baby. If it goes wrong, they can still take the baby out.” I was like, “Okay.” The OB warned me. She was like, “If you start Pitocin and he gets down into the birth canal, you cannot go back and have a C-section. You will be birthing this baby.” I was like, “Okay.” Meagan: If something went awry, they totally could. Sabrina: They would, but she was like, “You’re not getting all the way there and then tapping out.” I was like, “It’s not really tapping out, but whatever.” Meagan: Interesting, yeah, that they said that. Sabrina: Then she told me, “I do have a high rate of forceps.” I was like, “Okay, I appreciate the honesty.”Meagan: Like a high success rate or do they use them all the time?Sabrina: She uses them a lot. Meagan: That’s interesting. Sabrina: Yeah, it was. She was like, “Okay, what are your hard no’s?” I was like, “I would not like forceps and I would not like an episiotomy.” She was like, “Okay, but if you need it, would you accept it?” I was like, “Yeah, obviously, for the safety of my baby.” Meagan: Like you would choose that over a C-section maybe that is what she was trying to say. Sabrina: Yeah. We start the Pitocin maybe at about 8:00 PM. I was like, “Okay, here we go.” They’re coming in every half hour doing it up. She said that she had no limit on how much she would give even with a previous C-section. I guess some OBs have a limit. Meagan: Yes, they do. Yeah. Sabrina: She said that she didn’t. Meagan: Interesting, okay. Sabrina: She was like, “If you want to do this, I am game to do it.” I was like, “Okay. Let’s do it.” So we started Pitocin. She came back around 10 and she was like, “You’re still only 8 centimeters.” I had been on Pitocin for two hours now. Meagan: This is seriously a positional issue now. Sabrina: Then she’s like, “Let’s check him.” She’s like, “Oh, I think he’s asynclitic.” I was like, “Could we have not discovered this–Meagan: Hours ago? Sabrina: This morning. So she was like, “Try the peanut ball some more. If he doesn’t move in two hours, you’re having a C-section.” I was like, “Okay, fine.” We’re going at it. I’m on the peanut ball. I’m switching positions. I must have had a decent epidural because I was able to do all of this on my own. My nurse checked me at 11:30. She was like, “You’re 9.5.” I was like, “What?”Meagan: Positional changes. Sabrina: She was like, “You’re mindset, this physician. Keep going.” I was like, “Okay. I can do it.” Midnight rolls around. She checked me and she was like, “You’re 10 centimeters.” I was like, “We did it. We made it. Now this baby is being born.” It is now two days later. Here we go. My appointment was on Wednesday morning. It is now Friday morning. Let’s get it. I was pumped. I’m ready to start pushing. Great. So they gave me guided pushes to begin with. She’s like, “You have it. You’re doing great. Keep going.” The worst part is in between every contraction, I had to throw up. My husband is holding my leg while I’m pushing then he immediately has to put my leg down and has to grab a bucket. It was between every single one. There was no break. I hadn’t been eating because– Meagan: That is, of course, if they don’t let you eat. Sabrina: Yeah. It had been two days. I’m just, yeah. It was rough. He makes a joke of it all the time that he was the nurse. He was like, “I pick up her leg. Put her leg down. Grab the bucket. Put the bucket down. Grab the leg.” So pushing comes up. 2:00 AM. She was like, “Okay, well you’re pushing effectively, but nothing is really going on. You’re coming up to 24 hours on a broken water.” I was like, “Oh my goodness. Just give me more time. I just need– Meagan: Again, no signs of infection, correct? Sabrina: Nothing. Meagan: So yeah, you have 24 hours but baby’s fine. There are zero signs of infection. Sabrina: Yeah, there are zero signs of infection. His heart hadn’t dipped one time. They were saying that his heart rate was too perfect. Meagan: So it doesn’t really need to be a conversation. Women of Strength, just listen to that. If infection is coming into play, then okay, but that just causes stress on you that you didn’t need. Sabrina: Yeah, exactly. I think they were just saying it to say it at that point. Nothing was wrong. So then I continued to push and it’s coming up 4:00 AM. I’ve now been pushing for four hours. I’m so tired. I’ve been up for over two days and literally over 48 hours I’ve been up at this point. I’ve had contractions for 48 hours nonstop, no breaks. I’m looking at my husband and I’m like, “I can’t anymore. My body can’t push. My muscles are weak.” I tried all of the pushing positions with your legs up on your back. I tried the squat bar. I tried with the sheet. I tried over the back of the bed. I tried everything and I can’t do it. I’m literally saying to him, “I can’t do it. I have no strength left. My body is quivering.” I’m bawling my eyes out and he looks at the nurse. He’s like, “Call the OB. She can’t. What is she supposed to do? Keep going?” It takes her a while to get there obviously because everyone else was having their babies. She comes in and she’s like, “What do you want to do?” I’m just like, “You just need to get the baby out. I don’t care what it is at this point. Just take the baby out.” Meagan: You’re so exhausted. Sabrina: Yeah. I wasn’t even upset about anything, but I was just crying because I had no control over anything at that point. My body was tired. My emotions were tired. I hadn’t slept and she was like, “Do you consent to forceps?” I was like, “I consent to whatever you need to do. Just get him out.” She was like, “Okay, I want to do some guided pushes to see if I can help you.” I pushed. She was like, “Your pushing is really good, so something is just not letting him come through.” I was like, “Okay.” Meagan: Did she do any feeling of the head at that point internally? Sabrina: Yeah. Yeah, she was. Then she was like, “I have to go in further to try to turn him a little more.” She tried to stick her whole hand in and I remember the feeling. I was like, “Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Stop. This is so painful.” She was like, “You can’t use forceps if you can feel that.” I was like, “Oh my goodness.” Then they had to wait and call the anesthesiologist to get a top off of fentanyl or whatever. Meagan: Your epidural. Sabrina: Yeah. She comes in. She’s like, “Okay. We’ve got about 15 minutes before this isn’t as strong. Are you ready?” I was like, “I guess so.” She was like, “Just because you have the medication doesn’t mean it’s going to feel good.” I was like, “Okay.” She was like, “It’s a lot of pressure.” I was like, “Okay. I’m trying to birth a baby. It’s a lot of pressure already.” She was like, “Okay.” She sticks them in and it was not great. It was pretty awful feeling, but she only had to pull twice. She puts in and pulls once. It doesn’t do anything. She was like, “Okay, push really hard,” and then all of a sudden, he was born. I remember just the feeling. All of the pain went away. All of the hardness of the birth was gone. I did have to get an episiotomy and I did feel her cut. She didn’t tell me she was doing it, but I felt it. That was hard for me because I was just like, “I didn’t want that.” Meagan: That’s hard. Sabrina: But you have nothing left and you are just getting that baby out. Yeah. He was born at 4:49 in the morning after 49 hours of labor. He was perfectly healthy. He was a big boy, 8 pounds, 7 ounces. Yeah, and everyone thought it was going to be a girl because boys’ heart rates are wonky usually and girls like to talk on the phone so they are asynclitic. Meagan: Oh, that’s hilarious. I’ve never heard of that. Girls like to talk on the phone so they come out asynclitic. Sabrina: Yeah. That’s what the OB said, the midwife said, and the nurses said. Then the OB comes up to me. She was like, “Those ladies going for VBACs, they’re determined. They don’t care what they’re doing. They just want the VBAC and they’ll do anything to achieve it and you did it.” I was like, “Wow, that was really supportive of you.” Obviously, I didn’t get a natural, no intervention– Meagan: Unmedicated. Sabrina: Yeah, a no-intervention birth, but I did get a VBAC. This is the funny part. They are stitching me up. Obviously, I have my baby. I’m laying on my back and they have a mirror above my eyes so I can see what they’re doing. I was like, “Um, this is a design flaw in this room. I don’t think everyone wants to watch.” Meagan: Yeah, I mean, maybe coming out but I don’t know about suturing. Sabrina: Yeah, and I didn’t notice it was there until they were doing that. He was healthy and everything was fine. Obviously, I had quite a bit of stitching. I had torn plus she had to cut medially so to the sides. Meagan: Mmm, ouch. Sabrina: Yeah, it didn’t feel good. She made a comment that was like, “It’s just the skin that I cut.” I was like, “Okay, that still sucks.” But yeah. He was born and then the next day, we got to go home. I was telling my husband, I was like, “This is why people have four babies.” This is way better than a C-section. I feel great. Meagan: Aww, I’m so happy. Sabrina: He was like, “What?” I was like, “I feel great. I could do it again.” Meagan: Yes. Sabrina: To me, even though it was very different than I had planned, I achieved what I wanted and I got my baby. I got my VBAC and I birthed him myself. Meagan: Yes, and you made it through a really long, tough labor. I want to actually talk about assisted birth because this is actually a really great question to ask yourself as you are preparing for your VBAC. Something that we go through in our doula practice is asking ourselves what they said. You have options. There is a point where we can use an operative vacuum or forceps or go to the OR. There are going to be pros and cons to both. One of the cons can be damage to baby and damage to mom, especially pelvic floor trauma and things like that. So you have to weigh out your pros and cons there as well and decide if that’s acceptable to you or if a Cesarean would be a better route at that point. I encourage you to talk to your providers even before you go into labor about their method of assistance. If you don’t– so a lot of the time, midwives aren’t the ones doing vacuums and forceps. They’ll have, just like in your situation, an OB come in so you can talk to them and say, “Who would be doing this? What is their method?” Obviously, this provider is very forceps-pro versus prone to go to forceps versus vacuum. She apparently uses them a lot. Asking those questions beforehand so you can know and then looking at the information. We actually have a blog which we will put in the show notes today all about operative delivery and the studies and stuff and the risks, the pros, and the cons. I think that is a really important thing to know. Where you were at, you were like, “I would rather do this than that.” Some people are different. Some people are like, “I don’t want to risk a forceps or a vacuum and I’d rather have a Cesarean,” so asking yourself those questions beforehand and knowing what your provider’s style is beforehand is actually a really, really good thing to think about in case you’re in a situation like this. Sabrina: Oh my goodness, yeah. Meagan: You would say that it was worth it for you. Sabrina: Yeah, definitely. Meagan: And baby was good. Sabrina: Baby was fine. I would do it again. That’s what my midwife said at my six-week appointment. She was like, “Wouldn’t it be crazy how you would feel if you didn’t have that?” I was like, “Oh, I’m sure my husband would be going for a vasectomy tomorrow. I would want all of the babies.” It’s just so rewarding if you have that goal in mind to achieve it. Obviously, I didn’t get what I wanted, but I still had the empowered feeling of doing it. Meagan: Good. Good. So good. And it’s not even that you didn’t get it. That’s so hard. Birth isn’t always happening exactly how we want it or envision it. There are some bumps and curves along the way, but the mindset, right? We can be in a space where we are making those decisions and not being told we have to do something, I mean, and Dr. Fox talked about that on the podcast. Sometimes a provider will come in because they’re almost obligated to say, “We need to do this,” like maybe your first birth. “We need to go to the OR right now.” But then there are some times where it’s like, “Hey, this is what I would suggest but  here are the pros and cons and here are your options.” I think that there is something that is very empowering when a mom is able to really have some informed consent and make a decision that she feels is best for her. Sabrina: Yeah. Yeah, even if in the end you are begging them to take the baby out. Meagan: Right. Sabrina: But yeah, I would totally do it all over again. Even just what she said to me, “Women trying to VBAC are the most determined. You can do it.” I was just like, “Okay. I can do it.” Meagan: You can do it. You can do it. There is something unique about us VBAC moms where we have this– I mean, we all have a mission to have a baby, but I think sometimes, we have a mission to have a different experience. Sabrina: Yeah. Meagan: We want something more. We are working hard and we’re doing these things. We’re eating the dates and we’re going to the chiropractor and we’re getting massages and we’re curb-walking and getting our steps in and finding providers and listening to podcasts. We’re doing all of these things and we want to try to get what we are prepping for. That’s okay. That’s okay that you want that, but there is some special determination I believe in the VBAC community, 100%. Sabrina: Yeah, definitely. Meagan: Well, thank you so much for being here with us today and sharing your stories. Huge congrats. Sabrina: Oh, thank you.ClosingWould you like to be a guest on the podcast? Tell us about your experience at thevbaclink.com/share. For more information on all things VBAC including online and in-person VBAC classes, The VBAC Link blog, and Meagan’s bio, head over to thevbaclink.com. Congratulations on starting your journey of learning and discovery with The VBAC Link.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-vbac-link/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands