Kallista with New Mom Boss Talks Postpartum

You’ve researched, prepared, and achieved your VBAC, but now what? We are diving deep into all things postpartum today with New Boss Mom, Kallista Anderson. Kallista shares her expertise with us on how to thrive during the postpartum period.Topics include:Strengthening your relationshipsKallista’s number one postpartum tipInvesting in yourselfWarning signs and resources for postpartum depression Continue advocating for your needs even after your baby is born. You deserve to enjoy this season and your baby deserves to have the best version of yourself!  Additional linksNew Mom Boss Kallista AndersonPrepping For Postpartum WorkshopMeal Train WebsiteEdinburgh Postnatal Depression ScalePostpartum Support InternationalHow to VBAC: The Ultimate Prep Course for ParentsFull transcriptNote: All transcripts are edited to correct grammar, false starts, and filler words. Meagan: Happy Wednesday, everybody. I am so excited today to talk about postpartum. Julie and I have partnered up with Kallista Anderson who, if you don’t already know, you should know. She has her podcast, The New Mom Boss Podcast, and she is amazing. She is helping mamas get through all the things by preparing, self-care, creating a good space, learning about postpartum, and coaching all the things. So today, we are going to be talking with her about postpartum and a few different types of things about postpartum: navigating through relationships in postpartum and then also prepping for after and being prepared. Before we do that, I am going to turn over the time to Julie, and then we are going to dive right in because I think this is such an important topic that honestly isn’t talked about enough.Review of the WeekJulie: Yeah. I’m excited too. Postpartum, my goodness. We don’t talk about that enough here and society doesn’t talk about it as much just generally. So we are glad to have Kallista here with us today. Our review today comes from Apple Podcasts and it is from jenh415. She says, “I don’t feel alone in this journey anymore.” Her review says, “I started planning my VBAC two years ago right after I had my son. My Cesarean left me with lots of negative feelings and thoughts about myself and birth in general. I just knew that I needed to have a chance to have my dream birth. I found your podcast at almost 14 weeks pregnant–” and she is now 18 weeks. Oh, this was left in July. Let’s see. “--and immediately dove in headfirst. When I first started listening, I couldn’t make it through five minutes of an episode without bawling my eyes out. With the help of my midwife and your empowering podcast, I now feel like I am headed in the right direction. Being able to hear so many different stories lets me know that I am not alone in this journey. No matter how my second birth story ends, I know that I will be in control and the experience is going to be completely different. I am forever grateful to the two of you for creating such a positive space for us mamas.”Oh, I love that so much. That makes me happy. It really is good reviews like this that help keeps us going. So thank you so much for leaving this review, jenh415. If you haven’t already, please, we would love to hear what you think about the podcast or anything else about The VBAC Link that has helped you on your journey. You can leave us a review on Apple Podcasts, Facebook, Google, or anywhere that you can leave a review.New Mom Boss Kallista AndersonMeagan: All right. Okay. We are so excited, you guys. So again, Kallista Anderson with New Mom Boss. You can find her on Instagram and thenewmomboss.com. We are so excited to hear what she has to say today. But I have to give a little plug-in before we even begin and I am probably going to remind you after because I would highly suggest taking her workshop. She has got a four-day– you said four-day, right? I think?Kallista: Yes.Meagan: Okay, yes. A four-day workshop is kicking off on June 3rd. So we will make sure in the show notes right here to be posting the link to register. It’s a postpartum workshop and I think it is such a valuable tool. We were talking about it before we pressed record for the podcast, but I feel like in the VBAC community, especially– I mean, definitely all around the world– but in the VBAC world specifically, we are so focused on the birth, on how to get the birth of our dreams, the birth that we want, how to change the experience from what we had last time, how to heal from trauma. We are working so hard on all of that and when it comes to postpartum, I feel like sometimes, we tend to forget about it, and then postpartum comes and we are like, “Woah.” We are in this space that we haven’t really prepared with and then we are kind of rolling with it. I would love to hear, I am so excited to hear all of the tools and things that we can learn to help make the postpartum experience just as great as the birth experience.So without further ado, we are going to turn the time over to Kallista and hear what she has to say. I think the first topic we are talking about is strengthening our relationship during the postpartum period.Strengthening RelationshipsKallista: Yes. Hey ladies. Thank you again so much for having me on your show. I’ve been looking to come on your podcast and yes, I believe what you guys are providing is so valuable also. But yes, the postpartum part is my passion. Like you mentioned, a lot of times we are focused on the birth. For me, most of my audience are first-time moms who are focused on the first time having the baby and all the preparation for the baby, which is wonderful and so needed, but then we kind of cut our planning short up to when the baby is born. Then we enter the postpartum period or the fourth trimester, which we sometimes call the time for the afterbirth period. The baby, but also Mama goes through her own fourth trimester. That basically is the first three months after having the baby. As you probably know very well, it’s kind of the messy middle before you get settled into new motherhood. And so that is what I teach about and what I coach on. I have courses on that. I try to catch my mamas while they are pregnant so that we can prepare for the postpartum period.So that workshop coming up is exactly that. It’s called Prepping For Postpartum. But it’s open to postpartum mamas as well because it’s the same ideas, concepts, and preparation that we are doing whether you are pregnant or already have your baby. The only advantage of doing it while you are pregnant is that it does make that transition a little easier when you’ve already planned these things out. The relationship piece is one of the biggest pieces in that postpartum period which I am excited to talk about.Meagan: Yeah. We are excited to hear about it because like you said, totally. We have clients that thought after having a baby and then hiring a doula, they talked about, “I didn’t know. I didn’t even know about the fourth trimester. I didn’t even know.” And you hear about it and it’s like, okay. We need to do better. We need to do better because I know that there are other countries out there that are so trained in focusing on that postpartum so much that they have crews come in, and families are supported, and tribes that take care of these moms and these babies for months even after birth and it’s just not like that here. In the US, we have moms going back to work within weeks, just a few weeks after birth. Like you said, we are still transitioning and we are going through so much and so, yeah. I am excited. What tips would you give to someone listening, especially someone so heavily preparing for birth, on navigating through and preparing for this postpartum period and maybe even understanding the postpartum period a little bit better?Kallista: Great. And maybe a lot of your listeners aren’t first-time moms, but they already know how hard it is the first time around. It does get easier with each round of having babies, but if you are not thinking about some of these things that I will talk about, you may get— you know that saying, “You don’t know what you don’t know,” and you just kind of keep doing things the way you did it before. If you had a difficult time the first time around and you are not taking the time to figure things out for the second time, you may just have another difficult time.For me, just a quick backstory of how I started this is I had always wanted to be a mom. You know, the dolls, and I just knew I wanted to be a mom, a young mom. Although it took a little while, I was so ready. I did all of the things, bought all of the stuff, had a beautiful Pinterest nursery, and washed all of the clothes. The baby came and I had such difficulty with breastfeeding, and my relationship with my husband felt strange and strained at the same time in the first few weeks. That was a shock on top of the sleep deprivation, trying to get breastfeeding right, and all that stuff. And so I was trying to feel my way into it and do just one day at a time, but it was really hard. And then at four months, I found out I was pregnant again.Meagan: Oh.Kallista: Well, do the math and don’t judge, but–Meagan: No, that’s just shocking, right?Kallista: Right!Meagan: Julie actually had her babies close together too.Julie: Yeah, I just say, “Don’t do the math,” too.Kallista: They’re not quite Irish twins, but they’re 13 months apart. Yeah. It was hard enough for me the first time around that I was like, “This isn’t going to happen again.” And so I did a whole inventory of what I did and what I didn’t do, and how I could make things better, and so I had a beautiful second-time experience. That’s when I started sharing it with my friends and then slowly, it became a business where I am helping more than just the people around me, like, people all over the world– the Internet, you know?For most people, maybe that isn’t their thing where they are going to sit down and think of all the things they can do better, or just make things easier for themselves for the next time around, because if that’s not where your focus is, you are just going to do it again, right?So that’s how I got into this and because of my difficulties breastfeeding, I became a Certified Lactation Counselor. Also, the other thing is that I am a registered nurse and my husband is a doctor.Meagan: Yes. Yes. I was going to say, I didn’t even mention that you are an RN, so we have a medical professional too.Kallista: I think both of us coming from a medical background had a little bit of medical arrogance like, “We’ve got this.” You know? And it’s not even the medical stuff that matters. I mean, it matters, but for the most part, our babies were healthy. There was nothing medically needed. It was that practical setting up of your life and the day-to-day things, and the communication, and all of these things that you don’t think about when you are preparing your registry, or when you are having your baby shower, or at your OB visits, or midwife visits. Well, maybe midwives. I love midwives and I feel like they take a little more time to talk to you, but nobody checks in and says, “Oh, how is your household going to be?” or “How is your relationship going to be? Have you talked about that?”Meagan: Yeah, or even just, “What is your plan after for sleeping, and meals, and all of these things?”Kallista: Mhmm, yeah. The things we take for granted before, the easiest things before having a baby like showering, eating a meal, doing all these little things, changing out of your clothes. They are like big projects in the first few weeks because you are recovering from birth, you’re lacking sleep, and you’re still trying to get a handle on breastfeeding, especially your first time around. And so you’re juggling all of these things and everything gets put on the back burner. You put yourself on the back burner, you put your partner on the back burner, and your household.And so preparing for all of these different parts of your life ahead of time is going to allow you to just be more present with your baby. You get to recover and heal without the stress of juggling everything else around you. Like I mentioned, doing it during pregnancy is great, but if you’re in your postpartum already, it’s still very doable. It just takes a little time to think about what you need, and then to talk to your partner.So today, we want to talk about preparing the relationship, right? I don’t know about you ladies, but that was definitely not something we talked about ahead of time.Meagan: No. Not at all.Kallista: No, right? The conversations are about what names we are going to have and just the fun stuff which is wonderful and I’m not saying to throw that out at all. But we have to talk about the real-life stuff. The dynamics of the relationship are going to change especially with your first baby because you don’t know what you’re getting into yet. And then of course with each baby, it does change the family dynamics with every child.So that would be my first tip. Preparing your relationship for the arrival of the baby is talking about how your relationship is going to change. Even that single question can just open a whole bunch of other questions like, “What do you think is going to change? What would you like to keep?” because it’s not going to be the same. Date nights aren’t going to be as easy to do, especially for the first little while. Carving out the time is not as easily done.Meagan: Mhmm.Kallista: Not forgetting each other. The baby is taken care of. Mamas know how to take care of babies and then the concentric circles that go out– your family, your friends, or whoever is helping you, the caregivers, so I am usually not worried about the baby. Even first-time moms are worried about doing newborn care. So much of that is instinctive, but it’s the paying attention to your relationship with your partner and with yourself that is not very much in our orbit, or the top of mine, you know?Meagan: Mhmm. You know, when I was preparing for birth, and I am kind of going to really all of it, like, first baby, second baby, everything. I just feel like I was in my own world. I would talk to my husband. Like, “I was studying this” or “I read this” or “Oh, it’s fine. This is the size of the baby. This is what is going on,” but I was so in my own world that I don’t even know just looking back, right? My youngest kid is almost 6, but I don’t even know if I even included my husband. Not purposely like, “I don’t want to include him,” but in my thoughts, and in my preparation, or anything. I don’t know. I don’t think I really consciously, I don’t know. I just didn’t. Is that weird? Is that common? Do we, as women preparing for birth, just think, “Oh, this is happening to my body, so I am preparing and this is what is going on,” but I don’t really talk about it, you know? Yeah.Kallista: I think so. I can relate to that. I remember especially during my first pregnancy, I was glued to that app. I think it was the Pampers app and another birth app where–Meagan: Baby Bump?Kallista: The updates where it has turned into a different fruit–Meagan: Yep. Yep. Yep, I think it was like Baby Bump or something like that. “Your baby is a mango” or whatever, you know? I am like, “Oh. That is so cool,” thinking about it and then I totally just probably ignored him. So much of that, you know?Kallista: Yeah. I think that the thing with husbands and partners is that they have a totally different experience. They know that it’s mostly about Mama and they kind of just accept that they are not going to be the focus of attention. It’s so funny because a few weeks ago– two of my friends had babies recently and we all went to go see the babies. I asked the dads, “So how are you? How is it going with the new addition?” I asked them separately and they were each caught off guard. “You are asking about me?” They didn’t even know how to answer. They were like, “I don’t know. She is doing all the breastfeeding. I’m okay.” You know? They are having an experience, but they are not in tune. We are just wired differently, but what I like to encourage is to be more connected and to be thought of. That is one of the things I coach new moms or pregnant moms. The biggest tool I like to use is the love language.Meagan: Mhmm.Kallista: Knowing what your love language is and what your partner‘s love language is allows you to communicate your love at any time, but especially in the postpartum when you are each focused on different things. The baby, for sure, and for a lot of men, it’s providing, so they get more focused on work. They feel helpless that they can’t breastfeed the baby or the baby just wants mom. So there is a lot. They feel very helpless. I read a study that shows that men also experience postpartum depression, but it’s just never looked at. They don’t seek help. They just kind of white-knuckle it and just stay on the ride until it’s over, but that is not helpful to the relationship, right?Meagan: Yeah, totally. Totally and as a doula, something that I really want to focus on in my prenatals is Dad too. Like you said, they kind of accept that they are not the ones giving birth and all these things, but they do. They play a really important role in this day and they go through a lot themselves. And so I like to, as a doula, try to focus on, “Okay, how do you feel? What do you want for this birth? What are your personal goals to get out of birth and this experience?”We do talk about postpartum and say like, “What are your plans? What helps you? What do you need when you are tired?” Because dads are tired too. So anyway, yeah. I love it. That’s awesome.Kallista: Yeah. And most women, we are just more naturally, I don’t know, in tune with our community. We like community and we like to tell our friends how we are feeling. Men don’t do that for the most part. Right? So they don’t have a postpartum dad community. I mean, we barely have one for the moms, so it’s almost nonexistent for the dads.So I like to reel the dads in a little bit and have them be a part of the conversation as they are preparing for the baby. And then in the postpartum period, using those tools like the love language and how to carve time out for each other even when you don’t have a babysitter. Things like that, and setting a date night. This is one of the things I tell my clients to do is to set a date night. Whatever your due date is, add maybe three, four, or five weeks after that, and just put it in the calendar as a date night so that you don’t forget about it. You can always readjust as that day comes, but I am the type of person that if it’s not in the calendar, weeks and weeks or months and months might go by and I will be like, “Oh my gosh. I haven’t done X or Y or Z.”And so that is one way to stay connected and have something to look forward to in the postpartum period or in that fourth trimester.Meagan: Yeah. I love that. I love that so much. Also, maybe we can help them find their community before because sometimes we are going to be tired and maybe even a little checked out, and it will be great if we can help them find a solid community or even just someone to chat with when they are tired and frustrated because of whatever that is happening. So I love that.What are some number one tips for postpartum in general? If you were like, “If you don’t have time for anything, make time for these things.”Number One TipKallista: My number one tip is to have a meal train in the postpartum period.Meagan: Yes.Kallista: A lot of women, not just women, people, our culture in general– we want to be self-sufficient. We want to be superwomen and we want to take how we are in our careers a lot of the time like, “I did this” and accomplishments, and take that into motherhood where motherhood shouldn’t be done alone. It’s a transition of learning how to ask for help and receive help. And so I have found when I tell new moms or pregnant moms about the meal train, they feel like, “Oh. I don’t know. I don’t want to really ask my friends for that.”Meagan: Yes. I know! Yes.Kallista: Right?Meagan: Like, “Oh, I don’t want to put people out.”Kallista: Yeah. And so in my packages, I offer to do that for them because they don’t want it to come from them and so that takes a little bit of the guilt off of them. But you can also just ask a friend to organize it for you. I use mealtrain.com. All you do is collect your friends’ and families' emails and whoever is organizing it for you can just input all of that, and then you just pick dates.I recommend having a meal train for at least a month. The first two weeks, I would say, you are on a high with just a lot of adrenaline and you don’t feel the sleep deprivation, and then after that, it’s cumulative like, “Oh my god.” All those several or two weeks or longer worth of only two to three hours of sleep just come down like a ton of bricks. And so I like to set it up for at least four weeks.And nowadays, it’s never been easier, right? There is this platform where people don’t even have to go to your house. They can either order delivery or they can send a gift card, like a GrubHub card. The other beautiful thing about that platform is that if you do have friends and family nearby and you have some tasks in your household that you could use some help with, like walking your dogs, or taking out the trash cans if your partner isn’t able to for whatever reason, just anything that can alleviate and take things off your plate for a few weeks– this is a temporary time. So I guess the biggest message around that is, don’t be afraid to ask because it’s not like you are going to rely on them forever. You truly do need that help for the first several weeks and Meal Train allows you to do that. You can set scheduled tasks there and people can assign themselves the different tasks that you need help with.Meagan: Yeah. I love that so, so much. The thing is that these people are asking. It’s hard because I also wish we could change how our culture asks. Like, “Oh, if you need anything, let me know. I am here for you.” Sometimes it makes it kind of like, “Well, I don’t really know what I could ask for and I feel bad asking.” Instead, it’s just like, do it. And so even telling our community about these things, like this website, this platform, where it’s like, “This is what I need.” Don’t be scared to ask people for help because they honestly want to. People really do want to.Kallista: Yes. Right after the baby is born, everybody loves it when a baby is born. Everyone is so excited for you and so happy that I say to milk that time because it’s not forever. I think it’s because we are naturally wired that way. We are supposed to live in villages and help each other. It’s just not how we live anymore, but I think the instincts are there. We just have to remember that we are social animals and we are supposed to help each other. We weren’t actually made to live in single-family homes. We are supposed to live with our family. I love living this life, don’t get me wrong. I love having our own home, just my own little family, but when it comes to raising a child, especially right after birth and having a new baby, definitely lean on your community. The more you lean on them, the better you will be as a mom because you cannot do it alone. It’s not that you cannot do it alone because you can, but you won’t be as happy because if you are too tired, you are not going to be the kind of mom that you want to be for your baby. You want to reserve that energy for your baby, so let other people lift you up and carry you for the next 12 weeks, that fourth trimester, that postpartum period.Allow people to help you. Sometimes, the biggest barrier is just allowing people to help you.Meagan: Yes. I love what you just said. You are like, “Lean into this. Allow this to happen. Allow people to love you and serve you,” because like I said, they really want to. It reminded me of one time, I went to a client’s postpartum. So as a doula, we do a couple of prenatals. We go to the birth and then after, I love to– sorry. My dog is deciding to have a conversation as well over here.So we like to go and serve them and take that hour and a half while we are there to do whatever that means. If that is housecleaning, if that is nursing help, if that is cleaning toilets because family is coming in town and you don’t feel like cleaning toilets, great. We want to serve you during that time. But there was one time when I went over to do that visit and there was a list on the door. She had a screen door and so it was kind of just on her door. I was reading it as I was waiting for her to come to the door and I thought it was brilliant. It said something to the effect of, “Hi, everybody! We are so happy you are here to see us and meet Baby so and so. While you are here if you would not mind, these are things that would benefit and help us tremendously.” She had a little checklist like, “take out the trash, sweep my floor” and all of these little things. She was just like, yeah. My people come in and we visit, and it’s so great, and they leave, and my floor is now clean, and I don’t feel like I have to hold the baby and vacuum. My husband doesn’t feel like he has to tackle the kids and get them to bed and then now vacuuming is too late because the kids are sleeping. He doesn’t want the kids to wake up. And I was just like, “Wow. Good for her. That is what we need to lean into and not be scared of doing and saying, “These things would be greatly appreciated. I love that you are here. I am so grateful to you if you wouldn’t mind helping me with these things.”Kallista: Yes. Yes, I love that. I love that idea as well. I also recommend that to new moms. The other thing I like to add on that note is especially in the early, early weeks, the first few weeks when you have visitors, you actually need a lot of rest those first few weeks, right? I know from myself that once I get chitchatting with my girlfriend, I love it so much that we will be talking for two hours or three hours later after she arrives when I really planned for an hour visit. And so that’s another thing I like to add to that door note is, “I am going to want to talk to you forever, but remind me that I need to rest after an hour because I can go on and on.” We crave that adult conversation, but then we forget like, “Oh yeah, I forgot. Tonight, I am not going to sleep, actually, once the baby wakes up in the middle of the night.”Meagan: Exactly like, “I love hanging out with you, but I probably should be sleeping while I am holding my sleeping baby.” Yeah. I love that. Please keep the visits limited and that is okay to do. It really, really is okay to do. It’s also okay to say, “Hey, will you hold my baby and love on my baby for a second while I go take a quick nap?”Kallista: Mhmm, yes.Meagan: It’s okay to say that.Kallista: You want a nap. You want a shower.Meagan: Shower, yeah.Kallista: Those three things I was like– I am very lucky that my mom lives two blocks away.Meagan: That is lucky.Kallista: I would call her, “Can you come over so I can shower? Can you come over and hold the baby so I can eat really quick?” And she would. She did that for the first couple of months. It was so great.Meagan: That is so, so awesome. I don’t know how much you talk about postpartum doulas, but there are doulas who are specifically there for postpartum help. They come in and they do the cleaning, and they can bring baby in the middle of the night to you so you don’t have to even exert your energy to get up and go into the other room, right? They can take the other kids. They can take the other kids to the zoo, or to the park, or for a walk, or go out on their bikes, so you and baby can nap. These are all services. It is so hard because there are so many things in life right now, especially these days, right? Money and things are so expensive and it’s hard. It’s hard to spend the money, or feel like that might be valuable, or to even justify it, but if you look at the long term and you say, “Okay. I can hire this postpartum help or I can sign up for this postpartum workshop to get the tools,” is going to seriously help you in the end. It will all be worth it, and then two years down the road, you will be like, “Yeah. It was totally worth whatever amount of money I spent because I had a really awesome experience and I was really able to bond with my baby, be present with my kids, and be the person I know I am– not super, super exhausted and so spent because I was able to lean in on this help.”Invest in YourselfKallista: Yes. You bring up a really good point. That is the other thing. A lot of us, in the beginning, have trouble accepting help even if it’s free help. The other thing is investing in ourselves. My husband and don’t take big family vacations. We actually love investing in things in our family. So we do have a lot of support as far as nannies go and things to make things easier for us like having someone else garden for us or whatever. That’s just how we choose to invest. An investment isn’t always a return on investment as far as money and financial returns. We think about our mental health, our joy, and our comfort. And so I think it’s good to remember, especially in the postpartum period, that it is the perfect time to invest in yourself because for the mamas who already have babies, you already know how hard the fourth trimester is, right? What would you give to be yourself to make it easier the next time so that would be the best mama you want to be for your baby and the best partner for your husband? I believe the mom sets the tone in the home. When the mom is down, it affects everything, right? We are the queens of our castles and when we are not at our best, it affects how we care for our baby, how we are when our partners are around, or when they come home, and so on and so forth.Meagan: Yep. Definitely. Definitely. Oh my goodness. Now my dog is barking. I love that though. Invest in yourselves and love yourselves.Kallista: Mhmm. Definitely. We get so focused on loving the baby which is so natural. You don’t even have to worry. That is there already. It’s the focus on self-care, healing, and getting the support and the love for yourself from your community and the people around you who can help you. That’s what, if you have time to gather that and to put those resources in place, that will definitely make your transition into motherhood, whether it’s your first baby, second baby, third baby, whatever, you will just have a better experience and bond with yourself, your baby, and your partner.Postpartum Depression: Warning Signs and ResourcesJulie: That’s great advice. I love it. One thing that I am passionate about, or maybe sensitive to about, during the postpartum stage is– my gosh. After my second, I had pretty bad postpartum depression and anxiety. Can we talk a little bit about what some of the warning signs are for parents or for even birth partners to look out for in their partners so that people can know when it might be appropriate to get a little more help outside of their community, their friends, or their support system? I know that it’s not something we talk about very often, but it is something that a lot of women face– some sort of postpartum mood disorder in that fourth trimester. What are some things you should be looking out for? When should we seek additional help like reaching out to a therapist or maybe a family care provider to get on medication or things like that?Kallista: Yeah, I’m so glad you asked that question. There is a really short quiz called the Edinburgh Postnatal Depression Scale and I can shoot you guys the link later to share with your audience.Julie: Yeah. We will put it in our show notes.Kallista: Yes. So this scale is recommended to be taken during pregnancy around somewhere in the third trimester, so 28-32 weeks. Around there, or just any time you hear about this if you’re pregnant. And then you take it again 6-8 weeks postpartum. That way, you have a baseline and see where you lie on the scale before you have the baby, and then you retake it and you see if there is a change. If it’s the same, then you’re probably okay. But I would still look out for signs of a lot of crying and sadness when you don’t really know what you are sad about. Those are some telltale signs.It is very common. There are postpartum blues, which are even more common. It’s just that sad feeling that usually goes away on its own, but a more severe feeling of that is going to be the postpartum depression and that scale is going to help you determine that. I encourage partners to take it as well because it is on the rise. Maybe it was always there, but we are just now learning about it or putting our attention on it.Julie: Yeah. I am really glad that you brought that up because we often think about postpartum depression and mood disorders in relation to the mother, but a lot of times it can affect the dad and other birth partners as well, and it’s something that we don’t even notice or talk about. So I’m glad that more awareness is being brought to that. I know that sometimes, the first person to notice that something is out of whack with their partner is the partner. My husband noticed it in me before I started noticing these things in myself.And so I always like to talk about that in my postpartum visits like Meagan was saying. Going over some of those things and going over some of those signs that you need to be watching out for so you can be aware because help is out there. Sometimes it’s a little bit harder to find, but I think reaching out and just acknowledging that you may need a little bit more help, that’s okay.There’s always help out there for you. If you can’t find help, then there’s this great group called Postpartum Support International as well. Also, all of the great resources that Kallista offers. That’s another great resource that’s available for parents as well.Kallista: Right. I had a very similar experience, actually. I had postpartum depression after my third which was a shock to me because I didn’t have it the first two times and I don’t have a history of depression, not that you need it, but I just don’t normally have those kinds of feelings. It was also my husband who noticed that I was just so down and crying. He was like, “I think you are depressed,” and I was like, “Oh my god.” I was such in a fog still because it was three to four weeks after the baby. My recovery with the third one was the hardest because he was almost 10 pounds and it was just a different experience than the first two.And so yeah. I went to go see my OB and I just told her, “I think I have postpartum depression” and she was like, “Oh, okay. Do you want something for that?” I don’t have anything against taking medication, but she didn’t even try to ask me. That was the straight solution and I said, “I want to wait,” and I went to my therapist. We have this therapist that we used to use as a couple, which I highly recommend too for any couple. I think it can only add to your marriage or your relationship when you have a third party who is skilled in communicating.Anyhow, I went back to her. We talked it out and everything, and I felt better. But also, that was also the same time when I was sleep training my baby and just getting more sleep immediately helped that, and then the talk therapy and just doing all of the self-care stuff. It got me out of that postpartum depression. But I know for some people, you definitely need above and beyond that. That’s why it’s good to go to somebody who is skilled in not just medication, but also therapy because I think you need it all. You want the options of it all.Julie: Yes, absolutely. I agree. Therapy plus medication can be a great combination. Some people just need one or the other, but if your provider is offering you medication only, that’s not inherently a bad option, but I would advise you to seek out therapy on your own because medication has proven to be a lot more effective when it is combined with therapy as well and vice versa too sometimes. So yeah. Great options are available out there.Meagan: Yeah. I actually had a similar experience, but my postpartum stuff, I would say, started kicking in probably around month nine, actually, but I didn’t really feel it. I didn’t really recognize or accept it until 12 months. It was so late and so I just didn’t think of baby blues or postpartum depression. I was like, “Yeah, I’m not postpartum anymore. I am almost a year out. This isn’t postpartum.” My husband was like, “You are not okay.” And I was like, “Yeah. I’m fine. It’s fine.” He was like, “No. You’re not okay.” And so I also went to my doctor and he was like, “Oh, here’s some medication,” and I was just like, “But what’s happening?” You know? I don’t know. He didn’t really talk to me or anything. He was just like, “Here. Here are some pills. You can start taking them.” And again, nothing against pills, like absolutely fine, but I just wanted more. “This is what I believe you are experiencing. These are some options that we could try.”And so I went home and I just was crying and I was like, “Am I really experiencing this?” My husband was like, “Yeah. It sounds like it.” I was like, “Oh.” He was like, “Why don’t we figure this out? What can we do?” We found out that I was losing myself. I didn’t know where I belonged anymore. I was suddenly a mom which was amazing, don’t get me wrong. I love being a mom. But I went from being this big social butterfly, I had a job 9-5, I did what I wanted when I wanted and then all of a sudden, I was being run, in my head, by this baby on the schedule of this baby, and then I quit my job so I could be with my baby, which I am so grateful for, but at the same time, I lost my social outlet.So I was just really, really struggling and I found a barre class, an exercise barre class and I realized that I needed me time. Circling back to what we were talking about in the beginning, I also needed my husband time because I no longer felt like we were a married couple. I felt like we were roommates who shared a baby in the house. It was the weirdest feeling. And so I feel like it is so important along the way to tap into it and not be scared to say, “I am not okay and I need to talk to someone,” whether that’s an OB, whether that’s a midwife, whether that’s a therapist, whether that’s whoever, it’s okay. It’s okay to again, lean in, talk, let it out, and work through it because like I said, it was around nine months, but then nine, ten, eleven, twelve. I went for months and it just got worse, and worse, and worse. I hate that in this world, we feel like we have to suppress it or we have to feel alone because we don’t. We can get help and there are people out there for us.Kallista: Mhmm and kudos to our husbands for catching it.Meagan: Seriously though, yeah.Julie: Bless their hearts.Meagan: Like Julie said, yes. And then what I didn’t even realize until I was preparing for my VBAC was that my husband had trauma himself and issues that he was still holding onto from my first baby’s birth years and years ago. And so it’s just, yeah. It’s important to talk with our partners and really let it out. Sometimes, we don’t know why we are crying and that’s okay if we don’t know why we are crying or we don’t know why we are upset, but let it out and get it out. And use our resources because like you said, that world makes it so easy. It does really make it so easy. I mean, there are even therapists that help online. You don’t even have to go out of your house.Kallista: Everything is at our fingertips.Meagan: It really is, but for some reason, we don’t like to use the resources that we have sometimes. We are hesitant. And so, yeah. I think it’s just so important that we use them, accept them, and we love ourselves enough. Love yourself enough to not only prepare for your birth, and to prepare during your pregnancy, and treat yourself and your baby great during pregnancy, but also treat yourself great in the postpartum because that will make you a better parent, too. There’s a saying, “Happy wife, happy life”. It’s the same. A happy, healthy mom is going to be the best you. You are going to be the best you if you can take care of yourself.Kallista: Right. Right. And we can start modeling that now. I mean, I know babies don’t know that we are taking care of ourselves right away, but if we start practicing that and doing the self-care and just making that a habit, then it’s just going to make your experience as a mom even more beautiful because you’re not running yourself ragged. You know what they say on the plane, “Put the oxygen mask on yourself before you put the oxygen mask on anybody else,” right? We need our cups to be filled first so that they can run over.Meagan: Absolutely. And honestly, we are setting an example to our children, like you said. The babies don’t really recognize it right away, but in the long run, they are going to see because if we can set this mentality and carry it through our lives as we are raising our children, they are going to see how important that is and they are going to do the same thing.Kallista: Yeah. And actually, my kids love that my husband and I have a good relationship. They clap and they tell us to kiss because whenever we do, I guess it makes them feel secure. And so when you give a little more attention to your relationship and your kids see that, it gives them more comfort and security as a family. That can start right from the beginning.I think maybe that’s why they do feel that way because we’ve done a pretty good job. We’ve had our bumps and that’s why we went to therapy early on. Having kids back-to-back was a little straining on our relationship, but we figured it out and I am grateful we are just open to the outside help and that we don’t have to figure it out all alone. Of course, it starts with us too and we both have to be on the same page, but then using the resources that we have access to has been so great for our family. And really, it did start at the beginning.New Mom Boss WorkshopMeagan: Yes. Oh my gosh. I loved this. This has been so great and I truly do believe that it’s going to be valuable to all of our listeners. So I wanted to remind them that kicking off on June 3rd, 2022, you have a four-day workshop and they can register. You can find the link in our show notes or do you want to give them the information that they can register at on your website?Kallista: Yeah. It’s going to be on https://www.newmomboss.com/pfp-workshop.Meagan: Workshop. Okay. Right now there is a waitlist, but you are opening up when? So we can start telling all of our people?Kallista: Sure. So the registration will open on May 16th and if you are listening to this after, then it’s probably open already. Yeah. So it’s opening on May 16th and then we get to work. We will have a little pre-party on June 3rd and then go into the workshop over the weekend because I have found there are a lot of working mamas and the weekend works best. So we are going to do it starting on June 3rd, and then it’s going to be a four-day workshop after that. We will prepare as much as we can before the baby arrives, but like I said before, if you are already in postpartum, a lot of the same things will apply to the postpartum period if you are already in it and it will just make your experience in the postpartum period that much better.Meagan: Awesome. Thank you so much for being with us today and sharing your wealth of knowledge. Again, like I said, if you haven’t followed her yet, go follow her right now. You can find her on Instagram, @newmomboss, and I am sure she has got all of the things that you are going to love.Kallista: Thank you so much, Julie and Meagan. I have been looking forward to coming on your show and I appreciate you guys taking the time to chat with me.Meagan: Thank you.ClosingInterested in sharing your VBAC story on the podcast? Submit your story at thevbaclink.com/share. For more information on all things VBAC including online and in-person VBAC classes, The VBAC Link blog, and Julie and Meagan’s bios, head over to thevbaclink.com. Congratulations on starting your journey of learning and discovery with The VBAC Link. Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-vbac-link/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands