Ep173 Clive Washbourn of Navium: Welcome back, my friends

It's great to have Clive Washbourn back on the show. The Episode I recorded with him two years ago has been the most downloaded of any so far, so it’s obviously going to be good for business to do a follow-up.But it’s more than that. Clive is one of those people who is famous in the market. He is someone who people tell stories about, so you’ve heard about him even if you haven’t met him. So when he founded his Navium MGA it was a no-brainer to ask him on the show. I had no idea what to expect. What happened was Clive being an absolute force of nature and one of the most revealing and fun interviews I have ever been a party to. We did that one under a lockdown over a video call. This time we are face-to-face in Navium’s office on Lime Street in the heart of the London market. It makes a huge difference to be physically in the room with someone like Clive. He really comes alive. What follows is another tour de force which reveals what is driving this remarkable marine MGA and what has pushed it to produce an amazing $360mn in gross written premium. We talk about the market, Clive’s business philosophy and where Navium is heading and how it fits in with Pine Walk and the wider, and now restructured, Fidelis operation.But because this is Clive, we get into something that we rarely talk about elsewhere:Listening back, we grapple with the true art of underwriting and how to play yourself into a strong market position. We learn how you can be a really technical underwriter without being the least bit boring and how you need to be ultra-selective and teach yourself to maximise opportunities whenever they arise.We also get an idea of how you can turn down large amounts of under-priced business but at the same time make the brokers keep coming back to see you. After two interviews I’ve got my own theory. I think people come to see Clive because they really enjoy his company.I think he is someone you could talk to about anything and he would make it an interesting conversation and an honest an unflinching exchange of views. I get the feeling Clive makes all the people he talks to feel understood and special.Here Clive even reveals a historical interest in the battle of Waterloo and burnishes his prog rock credentials by bursting straight into song!We both had a lot of fun – and I learned a huge amount - and so will you.NOTESAbbreviations:TLO is a Hull insurance abbreviation for Total Loss Only.ULR is the Ultimate (Net) Loss ratio.Rinku Patel is mentioned as being in the room with us. He is CEO of Navium’s incubator Pine Walk and is also now COO of Fidelis MGU as well as being its UK CEO.The quote ‘No battle plan survives the first shots of war/first contact with the enemy’ has been attributed to many, including Napoleon, but probably dates back to an 1871 paper by Prussian Field Marshal, Helmuth von Moltke.And finally, here’s a link to the 1973 progressive rock classic Karn Evil 9 by Emerson, Lake & Palmer:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLS0Med0s6E the original had to be split into 3 parts so that it could fit on a vinyl LP! Clive’s part comes in at 8’40”…LINKSWe thank our naming sponsor AdvantageGo:https://www.advantagego.com/