A PALESTINIAN AND AN ISRAELI FATHER: “We must all stop being victims; victimhood causes the violence!”

Bassam Aramin and Rami Elhanan (peace activists with Parent’s Circle) are the two protagonists from Colum McCann’s Booker-Prize-longlisted book Apeirogon. Both lost their daughters to the conflict, ten years apart. Yet in spite of – or because of - this horror they became dedicated friends, or “brothers”, committed to opposing the Israeli occupation of Palestine and working with “the enemy” via Parent’s Circle, a peace group set up for parents from “both sides” who’ve lost a child.I spoke to Bassam and Rami on day #169 in the conflict and they’d just come from seeing the Pope. We cover how Bassam decided to study the Holocaust while imprisoned in an Israeli jail as a teenager for seven years, why Israelis are trapped by their victimhood and how we’ve all been locked into seeing this conflict as a football game of two sides.This interview is a chapter in an incredible story that involves a big-time Hollywood actor, who reached out to me while I was camping in remote Western Australia, a secondhand book find, a six-way email chain and an incredible love that reaches across history, walls and global fragmentation. NOTE: I will cover the very intersecting story of how we (the dads, Colum, the actor and I met) in the next episode. SHOW NOTESRead Apeirogon by Colom McannLearn about Parent’s Circle and donate here.If you want a bit of extra background to this whole story, I write about it here on Substack.I mention Naomi Klein’s work on the role of victimhood. A good starting point is this podcast interview with On the Nose. Naomi has also released two chapters from her latest book Doppelgänger for free online that cover her thesis super well.If you need to know a bit more about me… head to my "about" pageFor more such conversations subscribe to my Substack newsletter, it’s where I interact the most!Get your copy of my book, This One Wild and Precious LifeLet’s connect on Instagram and WeAre8 Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.